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Forum Home  →  Discussion  →  Benefits for older people  →  Thread

Mixed age couple and housing benefit from 15th May

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Charles
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Not to answer for Peter, but my understanding is that subparagraph (a)(i) as replaced by Art. 5(2) allows a new claim for HB by mixed-age couples until 15/5/19.

The only difference now is that the claim has to be made by the member of the couple over pension age (previously, either member could make the claim).

Peter Turville
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Charles - 27 March 2019 04:28 PM

Not to answer for Peter, but my understanding is that subparagraph (a)(i) as replaced by Art. 5(2) allows a new claim for HB by mixed-age couples until 15/5/19.

The only difference now is that the claim has to be made by the member of the couple over pension age (previously, either member could make the claim).

Charles -that is also our understanding and what the HB/PC Memos say (and I understand that is what my copy of the 2019-20 CPAG handbook will say).

However the relevant authority are still stating (without reference to legislation) that (because the couple were previously, but are not currently, in receipt of UC) they cannot claim (as Peter states above they don’t understand the lobster pot is not without holes!).

Charles
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Hmm, seems to be a pretty widespread misunderstanding.

I don’t fully blame them, to be honest. Paragraph 8 here, for example, certainly gives that erroneous impression.

Rebecca Lough
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I am also struggling to fully understand this. Can I confirm:

In a scenario where a mixed age couple is currently missing out on PC (because they’ve never applied but are entitled) and the younger person is claiming HB for them both then the older person needs to claim PC AND HB in order to protect them. PC claim has a deadline of 13/8/2019 and HB has a deadline of 14/5/2019? Simply him claiming PC will not protect them because they are not receiving ‘pension age’ HB.

Clarification gratefully received.

Daphne
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So long as they are in receipt of either PC or pension age HB on 14/5/19 they are ok. If they miss that deadline they can still claim PC up to 13/8/19 (provided they had entitlement on 14/5/19). Once they are on PC they can then claim pension age HB as entitlement to one means you can still claim the other.

Article 4 of the Welfare Reform Act 2012 (Commencement No. 31 and Savings and Transitional Provisions and Commencement No. 21 and 23 and Transitional and Transitory Provisions (Amendment)) Order 2019

[ Edited: 11 Apr 2019 at 04:51 pm by Daphne ]
Charles
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This is an interesting one. Technically, a HB claim can also be backdated 3 months by the elder member of the couple, and therefore still be made after 14/5/19 like PC.
However, in this case, the existing HB claim has to be terminated, and the termination cannot be backdated (as far as I know). So, I agree with Daphne in this case that either PC has to be claimed by 13/8/19 or the HB claim transferred by 14/5/19.

Rebecca Lough
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I have a colleague who is querying this interpretation on the basis of reg 4 and her understanding is receiving pension-age related HB or PC (one or both of them) before 15/5 means that you can make new claims for the other one on or after 15th May as long as you remain continuously entitled and part of the same mixed age couple. So in the example, she thinks they’d be okay after 15/5 regardless of the backdating period because pension-age HB is already in payment for both of them.There’s nothing specifying that the pensioner needs to be the claimant. I think the backdating is only relevant if the person isn’t already in receipt of either of them and needs to establish a new claim before the 15/5 cut-off.

Regs:


(4) In this Order—

(a)a person is entitled to state pension credit or housing benefit on any day where the person has made a claim for that benefit and the conditions of entitlement are met in relation to that person, regardless of whether, respectively, entitlement begins on a later day under—

(i)regulation 16A (date of entitlement under an award of state pension credit for the purpose of payability and effective date of change of rate)(10) of the Social Security (Claims and Payments) Regulations 1987; or

(ii)regulation 57 (date on which entitlement is to commence) of the Housing Benefit SPC Regulations; and

(b)a reference to claiming or entitlement to state pension credit or housing benefit as part of a couple is a reference to the claim being made, or the person being so entitled, on the basis that a person is a member of a couple or (save in article 7(3)) a member of a polygamous marriage.

Thoughts?

Paul_Treloar_AgeUK
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Our understanding certainly supports that interpretation i.e. they must be entitled to either PC or HB SPC-rules on 14 May 2019 in order for the savings provision to have effect. Claiming either one on that day allows for a claim for the other benefit to be made after this date provided there is no break in entitlement.

Charles
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I think Rebecca is suggesting that even though the younger member of the couple is the claimant it would be fine.

I don’t think that is the case. Even Art 2(4)(b) refers to “the claim being made, or the person being so entitled”. In this case that is only the younger member of the couple, despite it “being on the basis that the person is a member of a couple”.

past caring
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Indeed - HB-SPC age claims cannot be made by someone who has not attained qualifying age. And whilst the claimant does not need to be in receipt of SPC, a claim cannot be made if the claimant or their partner remains on IS, IR-ESA (or UC) or IB-JSA. Art 2(4) doesn’t change any of that…..

Paul_Treloar_AgeUK
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This is really starting to completely baffle me. We have a number of possible scenarios.

1) MAC already claiming HB in younger partner’s name, nothing else in payment - they cannot take advantage of savings and later on claim PC. As such, they do need to switch claimants by 14 May?
2) MAC already claiming HB in older partner’s name, nothing else in payment - they can take advantage of savings provisions as this must be HB SPC rules and they can later on claim PC.
3) MAC already claining HB as well as IS, ESA or JSA - no matter who is the claimant, they cannot take advantage of savings provisions as HB must, by definition, be working-age and cannot later on claim PC.
4) MAC already claiming HB and PC - definitely covered by savings provisions.

In scenario 3, if IS, JSA or ESA stops being paid after 15 May, then the HB claim should become a pension-age claim but due to CO, this isn’t possible, so HB claim stops and they need to claim UC?

Further, the reply I made was to the previous post from Rebecca on 11 April where she asked “Simply him claiming PC will not protect them because they are not receiving ‘pension age’ HB.” - in that case, the fact of older partner claiming PC by 14 May will be sufficient, regardless of the younger partner claiming HB.

This is going to be a complete catastrophe…..

past caring
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Paul, I don’t think there was any problem with your reply - just thought this

Rebecca Lough - 16 April 2019 11:29 AM

So in the example, she thinks they’d be okay after 15/5 regardless of the backdating period because pension-age HB is already in payment for both of them.There’s nothing specifying that the pensioner needs to be the claimant.

might have meant there was some confusion in Rebecca’s post.

Charles
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past caring - 16 April 2019 04:16 PM

Indeed - HB-SPC age claims cannot be made by someone who has not attained qualifying age. And whilst the claimant does not need to be in receipt of SPC, a claim cannot be made if the claimant or their partner remains on IS, IR-ESA (or UC) or IB-JSA. Art 2(4) doesn’t change any of that…..

I think actually HB(SPC) awards can be made to someone younger than pension-age if the partner is over pension-age.
However, that doesn’t change anything. The saving in Art 4 is only provided to the member of the couple entitled to HB(SPC). Seeing as the older member of the couple will of course be the one claiming SPC, s/he has to be the one claiming HB.

Charles
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Paul_Treloar_AgeUK - 16 April 2019 04:46 PM

We have a number of possible scenarios.

1) MAC already claiming HB in younger partner’s name, nothing else in payment - they cannot take advantage of savings and later on claim PC. As such, they do need to switch claimants by 14 May?
2) MAC already claiming HB in older partner’s name, nothing else in payment - they can take advantage of savings provisions as this must be HB SPC rules and they can later on claim PC.
3) MAC already claining HB as well as IS, ESA or JSA - no matter who is the claimant, they cannot take advantage of savings provisions as HB must, by definition, be working-age and cannot later on claim PC.
4) MAC already claiming HB and PC - definitely covered by savings provisions.

In scenario 3, if IS, JSA or ESA stops being paid after 15 May, then the HB claim should become a pension-age claim but due to CO, this isn’t possible, so HB claim stops and they need to claim UC?

Yes, I agree with all this.

Rebecca Lough
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At the risk of looking a bit thick, this is what I understand:

- In a scenario where the qualifying benefit for the HB is pension credit, it is not a problem if the working age person is the claimant

Therefore in the scenario I mentioned, as long as they claim PC before 13/8 (having been entitled since 14/5), then they will be protected and their HB is SPC HB because older person gets PC.

If this were a couple where there wasn’t current PC entitlement (perhaps due to working age partner’s c-ESA) then the older person has to be the HB claimant to allow them to later claim PC once they’re entitled but the fact that they claim HB by 14/5 does protect them beyond the August date.

EDIT: Spoken to a colleague and from an HB point of view, it is understood as a pensioner HB claim as long as the passporting benefit is not a working age benefit. E.g. mixed age couple where there’s no PC entitlement, older person receives SP and OP and younger partner is the HB claimant, but does not receive income themselves are protected because it is not a working age passported benefit.

[ Edited: 17 Apr 2019 at 09:24 am by Rebecca Lough ]