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UC & NHS charges exemption - NHS BSA doesn’t understand UC?

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Daphne
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Stakeholder forum have got back to me. They acknowledge that DWP still won’t check UC account. However, they have directed me to this youtube video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12vSM2UqmwU - which confirms -

- claimants should tick the ibJSA box
- evidence of UC award can be given from online account
- details of how to challenge penalty - they say they have done lots of liaison with NHS BSA and it should now be straightforward to get it sorted - which may be possibly the case given above post?

[ Edited: 4 Sep 2018 at 09:46 am by Daphne ]
Mr Finch
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It’s all very well, but they are asserting to people initially that the penalty is due: how do they know a significant number of people aren’t just paying it?

Andrew Dutton
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Mr Finch - 30 August 2018 11:27 AM

It’s all very well, but they are asserting to people initially that the penalty is due: how do they know a significant number of people aren’t just paying it?

Agreed. This is all being left for the claimant to do, notwithstanding any incapacity to do so, as is usual with UC matters.

The people I have dealt with so far are already heavily burdened, depressed etc, and it’s only if they can get advice that they will make a challenge.  It’s reasonable to assume that loads of people will just cave in to incorrect penalties - and as ever they will be those most in need of help.

We have also found NHSBSA being obstructive concerning authorisation to act. With UC also being obstructive about the same thing, I really don’t think it is going to be straightforward.

DWP/NHSBSA need to work harder on this, but the signs are they are not going to.

Also can they say WHY it has to be IBJSA that’s ticked and nothing else? It maketh no sense.

Ruth_T
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In today’s news:  Dentists say fines deterring poor patients

See https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-45355527

BC Welfare Rights
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Does anyone know what happens, in practice, if you just ignore one of these fines? Do they actually progress to court, money judgement orders, etc?

I ask because I have a client who does not want to appeal. His attitude is sod em, I’m not wasting my time with this.

Elliot Kent
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Billy Durrant - 30 August 2018 08:28 PM

Does anyone know what happens, in practice, if you just ignore one of these fines? Do they actually progress to court, money judgement orders, etc?

I ask because I have a client who does not want to appeal. His attitude is sod em, I’m not wasting my time with this.

Information released by NHS BSA under FOIA suggests that - as of 2 days ago - nobody has ever been taken to court for non-payment of a penalty charge.

https://apps.nhsbsa.nhs.uk/FOI/foiRequestDetail.do?bo_id=7864

Of course your client could be the first!

 

 

Chrissum
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And that would be a very interesting court hearing to observe!
“well it’s like this yer ‘onour, we don’t have the systems in place, despite at least 5 years of Universal Credit being in existence , of placing an additional tick box on the back of the prescription, but the defendant has clearly ticked the wrong box and therefore should be fined… yes of course we have told them which box to tick… No not on the form, m’lud, but in a series of clear you-tube videos which we don’t draw their attention to… yes we have the technological knowhow and expertise to do this but we just cant figure out how to add another box on the form or share an award with the NHS”

Mr Finch
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When you go to the website to make an appeal, it gets even worse as the appellant is told:

We won’t usually accept the following reasons:

  your exemption certificate had expired
  you feel that you were misadvised by your GP or by pharmacy or dental practice staff
  you thought that your contributions-based benefit entitled you to claim
  you thought your prescription prepayment certificate would automatically renew

https://www.nhsbsa.nhs.uk/challenge-penalty-charge-notice

So the appellant is fairly likely to think “well I did tick ib-JSA and I don’t actually get that, I was misadvised by the chemist, I’ll go and shout at them instead as I clearly can’t appeal”.

Peter Turville
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Daphne - 29 August 2018 04:23 PM

Stakeholder forum have got back to me. They acknowledge that DWP still won’t check UC account. However, they have directed me to this youtube video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12vSM2UqmwU - which confirms -

- claimants should tick the ibJSA box
- evidence of UC award can be given from online account
- details of how to challenge penalty - they say they have done lots of liaison with NHS BSA and it should not be straightforward to get it sorted - which may be possibly the case given above post?

But it doesn’t explain how a claimant can provide evidence from their on line account when, err, its online (if they don’t have access to the relevant technology to provide a print out, screen shot etc.).

Surely the point about UC being an on line digital (only) process is that a claimant can do everthing online! Except when they can’t in DWP/NHS version of never never online land.

Owen Stevens
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Elliot Kent - 22 August 2018 04:23 PM
Andrew Dutton - 22 August 2018 04:03 PM

I was waiting to see if there were any holes in the idea.  So we advise everyone to get an HC2…..

Theoretically, we should be advising everyone on means tested benefits to get one. The advantage of a HC2 is that it guarantees you entitlement to free prescriptions for the duration of the certificate regardless of changes in circumstances whereas if your entitlement is based on your benefit award, then it could be lost if you find work or if your benefits stop for whatever reason.

The NHS website actively discourages people on means tested benefit from claiming (there’s a whole section telling people on means tested ebenfit that they don’t need to apply): https://www.nhsbsa.nhs.uk/nhs-low-income-scheme

How would we go about asking them to change the website text?

ClairemHodgson
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Owen Stevens - 04 September 2018 02:18 PM

The NHS website actively discourages people on means tested benefit from claiming (there’s a whole section telling people on means tested ebenfit that they don’t need to apply): https://www.nhsbsa.nhs.uk/nhs-low-income-scheme

How would we go about asking them to change the website text?

i note that that website says
“If you are over 60, don’t live with a partner and your only income is from a pension, you might be able to apply online. To find out visit https://services.nhsbsa.nhs.uk/check-for-help-paying-nhs-costs/start

but if you’re over 60 you get free scrips in any event (as i know - says so on the back of the scrip form, and i haven’t been charged since my 60th birthday).

so people over 60 don’t need to apply

Daphne
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DWP hunts Agile team to help take Universal Credit data platform into cloud

The problem to be solved, DWP said, is that the current service ingests data from Universal Credit and provides data for analytical and operational services and to all other DWP data services requiring UC data. An API provides UC data to other government departments to support benefit entitlement decisions (such as free school meals). The services compete for platform resources and time from the team.

DWP said it needs the supplier to transform the current platform and toolset, including migration to the cloud, to allow reliable access to UC data and to enable product teams to use UC data and work autonomously and deliver at pace, whilst maintaining a secure and GDPR-compliant service.

Mike Hughes
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Daphne - 05 September 2018 02:20 PM

DWP hunts Agile team to help take Universal Credit data platform into cloud

The problem to be solved, DWP said, is that the current service ingests data from Universal Credit and provides data for analytical and operational services and to all other DWP data services requiring UC data. An API provides UC data to other government departments to support benefit entitlement decisions (such as free school meals). The services compete for platform resources and time from the team.

DWP said it needs the supplier to transform the current platform and toolset, including migration to the cloud, to allow reliable access to UC data and to enable product teams to use UC data and work autonomously and deliver at pace, whilst maintaining a secure and GDPR-compliant service.

Hmm, DWP have such a good record on data security too. Perhaps they should outsource it? Oh, hang on…

Maybe we should run a competition to see which cloud provider DWP sign up with who has lost the least data?

BC Welfare Rights
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Having appealed the latest wrongly issued PCN on behalf of my client and uploaded the relevant proof of income I have received this. Is it me or is this just ridiculous?

Dear Billy ,
Thank you for your email.

We’re unable to accept information from you without authority from the person named on the Penalty Charge Notice (PCN). If the patient would like you to discuss their case, we need them to contact us directly and provide authorisation for you to speak on their behalf. If they’re unable to provide authorisation we’ll need either:
• A copy of your power of attorney
 
• A letter confirming the person named on the PCN authorises your access and allows you to discuss their record. This can be written by you but must be signed by them. The letter must include:
 
o The full name of the person named on the PCN
 
o Their date of birth
 
o Their full address including postcode
 
o The full name of the person being authorised
 
o The date of birth of the person being authorised
 
o Your relationship to the person who received the penalty, or a password which you can quote
This information can be sent in reply to this email with an attachment or a copy via the post

Ruth_T
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Completely over the top.

Our clients sign to authorise our ORGANISATION to act on their behalf, rather than a named individual.