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Paid Expenses for Travelling to Job

 

NeverSayNo
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Not getting anywhere with this.

Query: client had an employment contract which stated she would get 13.5hrs of paid work per week. The work involved travel to rural parts of the county and she would be paid travel expenses to get to these places. Overall this travel in hours would amount to more than 2.5 per week. Client put down on her WTC claim that she did do 16+ hrs. As a LP she was awarded WTC.

Now HMRC have come back at her and said this is not right, she was only contracted for 13.5 and the travel time doesn’t count, even if she got paid travel expenses.

Any suggestions on whether getting the travel expenses means the hours she travelled counts towards the WTC limit?

Thanks in advance

     
John Birks
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The answer will be in here somewhere

https://www.trowers.com/uploads/Files/Travel_time_and_the_national_minimum_wage.pdf

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/national-minimum-wage-manual/nmwm08300

The National Minimum Wage Regulations 2015

34.—(1) The hours when a worker is travelling for the purposes of time work, where the worker would otherwise be working, are treated as hours of time work unless the travelling is between—

(a)the worker’s home, or a place where the worker is temporarily residing other than for the purposes of working, and
(b)a place of work or a place where an assignment is carried out.
(2) In paragraph (1), hours treated as hours when the worker would “otherwise be working” include—

(a)hours when the worker is travelling for the purpose of carrying out assignments to be carried out at different places between which the worker is obliged to travel, and which are not places occupied by the employer;
(b)hours when the worker is travelling where it is uncertain whether the worker would otherwise be working because the worker’s hours of work vary either as to their length or in respect of the time at which they are performed.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2015/621/regulation/34/made/data.xht?view=snippet&wrap=true

     
Andyp5 Citizens Advice Bridport & District
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NeverSayNo - 12 March 2018 04:50 PM

Not getting anywhere with this.

Query: client had an employment contract which stated she would get 13.5hrs of paid work per week. The work involved travel to rural parts of the county and she would be paid travel expenses to get to these places. Overall this travel in hours would amount to more than 2.5 per week. Client put down on her WTC claim that she did do 16+ hrs. As a LP she was awarded WTC.

Now HMRC have come back at her and said this is not right, she was only contracted for 13.5 and the travel time doesn’t count, even if she got paid travel expenses.

Any suggestions on whether getting the travel expenses means the hours she travelled counts towards the WTC limit?

Thanks in advance

Only quickly skim read this! So may have completely missed the point!

But if this is a HRMC case arguing it is only paid hours of work that count as opposed total hours worked including unpaid hours in the performance of her job’s duties.

See below three copy and pasted paragraphs from a sub did a few years in which the client was a Pt lecturer paid for 7.6 hours, but worked unpaid hours in excess of 16 hour threshold to actually be able to do the job. That may help with an argument that HRMC have erred in their interpretation of .............assuming your client is PAYE etc.

4.The Working Tax Credit (Entitlement and Maximum Rate) Regulations 2002, Reg.4(3)(a) provides that: the number of hours for which a person undertakes qualifying remunerative work is in the case of an employee, the number of hours of such work which (s)he normally performs under the contract of service under which (s)he is employed.

5.The wording of this legislation is entirely directed to the hours of work normally performed. There is no mention of the hours for which (s)he is paid.

9.For the reasons set out in both this submission and our earlier submission (pages 767 – 769), arguably Miss R does meet the 16 hour threshold to be entitled to WTC from 06/04/2013, based on both the factual evidence within the papers, and the law - The Working Tax Credit (Entitlement and Maximum Rate) Regulations 2002, Reg. 4(3)(a) – which is directed entirely at activity and not at hours paid.

 

     
John Birks
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I doubt the initial act of travelling to work - regardless of expenses - is classed as carrying out work/duties.

I’ve seen cases where people are paid expenses, even if for a limited period, where their place of work has moved but not classed as starting work until actually getting to the workplace.

I’d guess there may be scope where there is an actual place of work (base) and the work is performed away from the base of operations.


     
Andyp5 Citizens Advice Bridport & District
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John Birks - 13 March 2018 12:00 PM

I doubt the initial act of travelling to work - regardless of expenses - is classed as carrying out work/duties.

I’ve seen cases where people are paid expenses, even if for a limited period, where their place of work has moved but not classed as starting work until actually getting to the workplace.

I’d guess there may be scope where there is an actual place of work (base) and the work is performed away from the base of operations.


I agree John re initial act of travelling to work. I was thinking of exploitative contracts out there for e.g. care workers travel between clients etc.

     
John Birks
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I think the with further info from the OP this could be resolved one way or another.

     
NeverSayNo
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Thanks John, Thanks Andy - both very helpful replies.

I am going back to client with this to find out more about what the arrangements were.

Thanks again.