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Forum Home  →  Discussion  →  Disability benefits  →  Thread

DM said they are not able to take in to account whether someone sits down to get dressed

JAS1
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Advice Worker, Gaddum Centre

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Hi,

Just looking at a client’s decision letter and it says -

‘I cannot consider any help you need not covered by the activities for daily living and mobility including sitting to dress…’. Then it also lists the usual stuff like climbing stairs and shopping etc.

What is the DM on about here? I have never seen that be raised before. Client got 2 points for dressing but I am just wondering why needing to sit down would not be relevant? Maybe I have been missing something, I have always treated this as pertinent to the activity!

Thank you

Joel

EDIT: spotted this on https://pipinfo.net/activities/dressing-and-undressing -

“In [2015] UKUT 572 (AAC) Judge Mark ruled that a bed could be an aid for the purposes of getting dressed. However, in [2016] UKUT 197 AAC, Judge Jacobs disagreed finding that, whilst an item did not have to be specifically designed as an aid, it nevertheless must be sufficiently ‘connected’ to the activity to count as an aid for the purposes of PIP; in this case sitting on a bed was a common way of getting dressed and it was therefore not an aid. In [2016] UKUT 501 (AAC), Judge Markus prefers the ‘connection argument’, holding that sitting was a ‘usual and normal’ way to dress and that standing was not a necessary function of dressing or undressing.”


so [2016] UKUT 501 (AAC) seems to be relevant here? I guess in that case then they are correct and sitting isn’t seen as a relevant factor

 

[ Edited: 21 Feb 2018 at 01:29 pm by JAS1 ]
Mike Hughes
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A much misinterpreted decision. I keep hearing people say that it rules out ordinary everyday items from being aids or appliances when it does no such thing. Finest example I’ve heard so far was a day light for someone working full time with a sight impairment. Gets told that the recent case law means it cannot be an aid because it’s an everyday item!!! Er, no.

Sally63
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In a nutshell I think it depends why the client needs to sit down (if they really do). As the judge said many people sit down because sitting is nice. The bed only becomes an aid or appliance if you have to sit down to be able to reach your feet etc.

So what makes the bed important/essential for this particular client? Why is it not a matter of choice or habit but a necessary aid etc?

JAS1
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Thanks Sally and Mike.

This particular client sits down due to leg and foot pain. So I believe he will have said on the form and assessment (which I didn’t do with him so not 100% what he said) that he sat down to relieve himself of pain and discomfort when putting his clothes on. I can’t see why he wouldn’t have stated this so seems confusing the DM has disregarded it. 

So I guess we need to prove that the bed is an aid, needed due to the person’s health problems.

As opposed to me sometimes just feeling lazy in the morning and sitting down to put my socks and shoes on!

Mike Hughes
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The way I’ve put it to people thus far is that if you sit down in order to put on the things that other people prefer to put on sat down then you’re possibly not using an aid or appliance. On the other hand if you have no choice but to sit down to put on or remove specific items then you’re in the ball park so to speak.

So, I need to sit on the bed to put on socks. I can put them on standing up but if I do then the risk of toppling when I least expect it is one I’m not prepared to take given my known lumbar spine issue. Probably ball park. Whilst I’m sat on the bed I may as well put the shirt on which is laying on the bed but there’s nothing to stop me putting that shirt on when standing up. Probably not ball park.

John Birks
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The attached is fun

File Attachments

SamW
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Lambeth Every Pound Counts

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John Birks - 23 February 2018 03:39 PM

The attached is fun

The ones dealing with the relevance/non relevance of ESA assessments are particularly silly