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British Citizen/Naturalisation

 

Cookie
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Cl’s are Italian Nationals.  They have been living in the UK since 2001. Husband has worked on and off since then, but has not provided evidence of this to date.  Cl’s wife has also worked, again no evidence of this to date.  Wife made a claim for ESA back in March but was refused based on R2R and HRT.  My question is in order to claim benefits under ‘permanent residence’ do they have to first apply to become a British Citizen/Naturalisation or do they just need to provide evidence that they have worked and lived in the UK for more than 5 years.

Any help would be much appreciated – it been a long time since I have done any EEA work.

Many thanks.

     
HFCAB
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It’s the other way round - you need to demonstrate permanent right to reside in order to become a british national, but you definitely don’t need to be a british national to get benefits under this route. You can be an EEA national with permanent right to reside - you don’t even need to get the permanent reside card, it can just be accrued through their history.

Rebecca

     
Cookie
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HFCAB - 09 August 2017 12:00 PM

It’s the other way round - you need to demonstrate permanent right to reside in order to become a british national, but you definitely don’t need to be a british national to get benefits under this route. You can be an EEA national with permanent right to reside - you don’t even need to get the permanent reside card, it can just be accrued through their history.

Rebecca

Thanks Rebecca - so am i right in thinking that the only way they can do this is by providing evidence of their work history? Many thanks.

     
Stainsby
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You can “invite” the DWP to check their national insurance records.

They are sometimes a bit reluctant to do this, but in my experience they cave in when pushed.

I often cite Kerr v Department for Social Development for Northern Ireland [R1/04(SF)] to them

“62. What emerges from all this is a co-operative process of investigation in which both the claimant and the department play their part. The department is the one which knows what questions it needs to ask and what information it needs to have in order to determine whether the conditions of entitlement have been met. The claimant is the one who generally speaking can and must supply that information. But where the information is available to the department rather than the claimant, then the department must take the necessary steps to enable it to be traced. “

     
Simon
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Charlotte Keel Welfare Rights, Bristol CAB

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The client can also check their own NI records. Link here:
https://www.gov.uk/check-national-insurance-record

Compelling the DWP to act should really only be necessary if you are relying on the work record of an estranged family member, for example.

     
Cookie
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Stainsby - 09 August 2017 02:26 PM

You can “invite” the DWP to check their national insurance records.

They are sometimes a bit reluctant to do this, but in my experience they cave in when pushed.

I often cite Kerr v Department for Social Development for Northern Ireland [R1/04(SF)] to them

“62. What emerges from all this is a co-operative process of investigation in which both the claimant and the department play their part. The department is the one which knows what questions it needs to ask and what information it needs to have in order to determine whether the conditions of entitlement have been met. The claimant is the one who generally speaking can and must supply that information. But where the information is available to the department rather than the claimant, then the department must take the necessary steps to enable it to be traced. “

Ooo thanks for this!! :)

 

     
Cookie
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I have been looking at the case this afternoon and I think they only way it can be challenged is by showing that the Cl has ‘resided legally’ in the UK for a ‘continuous period of 5 years’.  So Kerr v Department may come in handy.

I was also wondering if husband would retain worker status if he makes a claim for JSA - becoming a ‘work seeker’.  As mentioned its been a very long time since I have dabble in EEA benefit regs and I feel like I am going round in circles!!

Many thanks for all your replies.

     
Simon
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Charlotte Keel Welfare Rights, Bristol CAB

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Cookie - 09 August 2017 04:06 PM

I have been looking at the case this afternoon and I think they only way it can be challenged is by showing that the Cl has ‘resided legally’ in the UK for a ‘continuous period of 5 years’.  So Kerr v Department may come in handy.

I was also wondering if husband would retain worker status if he makes a claim for JSA - becoming a ‘work seeker’.  As mentioned its been a very long time since I have dabble in EEA benefit regs and I feel like I am going round in circles!!

Many thanks for all your replies.

That’s really going to depend on his work record. If it is the case that he has recently finished ‘geuine and effective’ employment and is now involuntary unemployed then he may be able to retain this worker status by registering as a jobseeker (claiming JSA). If these are the cirrcumstances this may be a wise option until you can establish the history of employment. Of course, if it can be demonstrated that your clients’ have a permanent R2R this requirement would not be present. However this will depend on just how ‘gappy’ your clients’ work histories are, and whether they claimed JSA in those gap periods.

     
Cookie
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Simon - 09 August 2017 04:25 PM
Cookie - 09 August 2017 04:06 PM

I have been looking at the case this afternoon and I think they only way it can be challenged is by showing that the Cl has ‘resided legally’ in the UK for a ‘continuous period of 5 years’.  So Kerr v Department may come in handy.

I was also wondering if husband would retain worker status if he makes a claim for JSA - becoming a ‘work seeker’.  As mentioned its been a very long time since I have dabble in EEA benefit regs and I feel like I am going round in circles!!

Many thanks for all your replies.

That’s really going to depend on his work record. If it is the case that he has recently finished ‘geuine and effective’ employment and is now involuntary unemployed then he may be able to retain this worker status by registering as a jobseeker (claiming JSA). If these are the cirrcumstances this may be a wise option until you can establish the history of employment. Of course, if it can be demonstrated that your clients’ have a permanent R2R this requirement would not be present. However this will depend on just how ‘gappy’ your clients’ work histories are, and whether they claimed JSA in those gap periods.

Thanks Simon - yes this was what I was thinking. I just got the file today and don’t know too much about the work history etc or when he stopped working. Hoping to meet with the Cl’s soon. Thanks once again for your input :)

     
Cookie
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Hi me again…

Can anyone tell me –
Am I right in thinking that if the Cl continuously received JSA (IB) from 2006 to 2015 he would satisfy the permanent residency test and therefore no longer needs to show he has the right to reside?
A person can count as ‘residing legally’ in any period during which they had the right of residence as a:
• Worker
• Self-employed (including retaining worker status – as above)
• Self sufficient
• Student
• Jobseeker (only from 30 April 2006)
• Family member of any of the above
In 2015 Cl started work, but then stopped working again in 2016, he claimed JSA but was refused on ‘no genuine prospect of work’ grounds. But surely once permanent residency has been gained this cannot be taken away?