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What’s happening with the Tribunals Service?
Once upon a time HM Courts & Tribunals Service was a bastion of good service and prompt answers to telephone calls.
No longer so it seems.
Or is it just me?
cuts & closures.
staff that knew what they were doing no longer there.
new staff don’t have the depth of knowledge
etc etc etc
not just tribunals - courts as well.
at least with social security tribunals there’s no ever increasing court fees for the ever decreasing service…
Once upon a time HM Courts & Tribunals Service was a bastion of good service and prompt answers to telephone calls.
quote]I’m very jealous. Been doing this for 31 years and am obviously too old to remember their purple patch. Must be a regional thing. Prompt answers to phone calls was generally the case but “a bastion of good customer service”. Hmm.
Anyone who knows me knows that I might be biased, but certainly when the Birmingham/West Mids Tribunals Service was based at Auchinleck House they were brilliant and I’ve only been in the game for 17 years
There were (and still are) periodic “bring back Betty” calls for those of us old enough to remember Manchester tribunals being held in Quay House on Quay Street (over the road from the old Granada studios. Betty was employed to greet appellants, reps. and POs and she sat in the waiting area itself behind her own desk. All was peace and love even when Mancunian clients objected to Liverpudlian clerks (as was sometimes aggressively the case!). It was all very civilised. Sadly, behind the scenes papers went AWOL; listings clashed; travel expenses existed but were never paid; decisions never materialised; decisions were never communicated; the phones were never answered at lunch time and, when they were, we entered “I’m sorry the system is down” territory!
Plus ca change…
There were (and still are) periodic “bring back Betty” calls for those of us old enough to remember Manchester tribunals being held in Quay House on Quay Street (over the road from the old Granada studios. Betty was employed to greet appellants, reps. and POs and she sat in the waiting area itself behind her own desk. All was peace and love even when Mancunian clients objected to Liverpudlian clerks (as was sometimes aggressively the case!). It was all very civilised. Sadly, behind the scenes papers went AWOL; listings clashed; travel expenses existed but were never paid; decisions never materialised; decisions were never communicated; the phones were never answered at lunch time and, when they were, we entered “I’m sorry the system is down” territory!
Plus ca change…
the first Tribunal I ever attended was at Quay House…
am I feeling old again?
Not as old as me 😊
It’s currently being spectacularly redeveloped into something which looks residential and expensive.
cuts & closures.
staff that knew what they were doing no longer there.
new staff don’t have the depth of knowledge
etc etc etc
not just tribunals - courts as well.
at least with social security tribunals there’s no ever increasing court fees for the ever decreasing service…
oh Claire….. There is still time yet to introduce fee’s for tribunals with the way the MOJ reforms are going!
Anyone who knows me knows that I might be biased, but certainly when the Birmingham/West Mids Tribunals Service was based at Auchinleck House they were brilliant and I’ve only been in the game for 17 years
I have to agree with Dan - so maybe it was always a regional issue depending on which TS office was involved (and I go back before the days of Birmingham to Wembley, Sutton & Nottingham TS offices)?
Unfortunately we now find ourselves making regular complaints about Birmingham ASC and guess what we have put on the agenda (again) for the TUG in a couple of weeks!
May indeed be a regional thing.
I could take TUGs seriously if they happened more than once a year and anything ever changed. Had to sit through our recent one hearing how the frequency “worked well” for the Tribunals Service!!! One of those “I have no idea what to say next” moments.
May indeed be a regional thing.
I could take TUGs seriously if they happened more than once a year and anything ever changed. Had to sit through our recent one hearing how the frequency “worked well” for the Tribunals Service!!! One of those “I have no idea what to say next” moments.
And the last 2 years or so that admin managers are not allowed to attend TUGs to save money - so Judge chairing cannot answer / address the main issues raised which are always admin ones! The whole system becomes more Kafkaesk by the day!!!!
Even more interesting as we do still get the Admin. Manager. We used to get two or three from the team but, to be fair, they’re probably better served by not doing that as it was a very public display of admin. attitudes from 40 years ago (and I’m talking the last decade here) and a fine example of a public demonstration of the tail wagging the dog. The judicial side were frequently told by the admin. side that certain processes, which patently needed to change, could not change because they had always done them that way or they were imposed nationally. The palpable frustration and discomfort of whichever two DTJs turned up was nothing if not entertaining.
Having worked in the voluntary and public sector for a fair old period it always amuses me to be lectured at TUG meetings by members of an organisation with a structural model approximately 20 years behind local authorities let alone the private sector. The happy days when I would hand draft a letter to be typed in draft by a typist who, as I was split between two teams, would get the draft to me a week later, at which point I would then have to correct all the spelling errors etc. After 2 to 3 weeks we would have a finished product! Occasionally, appeals would be submitted late. Can’t imagine why!!!
oh Claire….. There is still time yet to introduce fee’s for tribunals with the way the MOJ reforms are going!
this is true; i think they have tried/thought about trying but it has been pointed out that there’d be no point as mostly people would be entitled to full fee exemption through not having any money through DWP not having done their job…...
oh Claire….. There is still time yet to introduce fee’s for tribunals with the way the MOJ reforms are going!
this is true; i think they have tried/thought about trying but it has been pointed out that there’d be no point as mostly people would be entitled to full fee exemption through not having any money through DWP not having done their job…...
As if? :-)
Not just you, I am finding them pretty hopeless at the moment. Recent examples have been - evidence not added to panel bundles even when sent in time to allow for the long timescales they give themselves to deal with anything. Not sending numbered copies of evidence back, so at hearings you are scrabbling around through your own unnumbered copy to refer to whatever the panel are asking about (very annoying when they are referring to a single page within a great wodge of medical records you have sent in). Ignoring instructions on client availability. Not adding rep details even when these are on the appeal form. Not dealing with request for domiciliary hearings - not refusing them, just simply not recognising the request and knowing what to do with it without being prompted. And so on.
All down to budget cuts and having not enough properly trained staff, I daresay.
Even more interesting as we do still get the Admin. Manager. We used to get two or three from the team but, to be fair, they’re probably better served by not doing that as it was a very public display of admin. attitudes from 40 years ago (and I’m talking the last decade here) and a fine example of a public demonstration of the tail wagging the dog. The judicial side were frequently told by the admin. side that certain processes, which patently needed to change, could not change because they had always done them that way or they were imposed nationally. The palpable frustration and discomfort of whichever two DTJs turned up was nothing if not entertaining.
Having worked in the voluntary and public sector for a fair old period it always amuses me to be lectured at TUG meetings by members of an organisation with a structural model approximately 20 years behind local authorities let alone the private sector. The happy days when I would hand draft a letter to be typed in draft by a typist who, as I was split between two teams, would get the draft to me a week later, at which point I would then have to correct all the spelling errors etc. After 2 to 3 weeks we would have a finished product! Occasionally, appeals would be submitted late. Can’t imagine why!!!
Again, it does appear to be a regional issue. We have had meetings at Birmingham at our request in the last few years to discuss admin issues. Staff have been open about the issues and limitations imposed on them by the IT system, process, casualisation of staff etc. etc. and certainly haven’t set out to defend their position at all costs (one can feel their own frustration at times - particularly those who had been in post back in the ‘good old days’ of the Tribunal Service). Not that that neccessarily filters through to an improvement in service in practice.