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PIP regulations to be amended

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Andrew Dutton
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The debate is on now - a Conservative MP is again claiming that people bring in ‘late evidence’ and this is why appeals succeed. DOH!!!!

He’s also just said ‘the proof is in the pudding’. What????

He’s just claimed that 70% of DLA awards were lifetime awards. I haven’t the stats in front of me but I bet that is not true.
https://fullfact.org/news/do-iain-duncan-smiths-dla-claims-ring-true/ - is he using Mr Duncan Smith’s stats??

Gov’t approach appears to be to deliver lengthy panegyrics to PIP without reference to the changes in question.

 

      [ Edited: 29 Mar 2017 at 04:39 pm by Andrew Dutton ]
Mr Finch
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Andrew Dutton - 29 March 2017 04:10 PM

Gov’t approach appears to be to deliver lengthy panegyrics to PIP without reference to the changes in question.

Very much so, and they also can’t seem to decide whether DLA was terrible because it was too generous, or not generous enough.

     
Daphne
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Speaking in PIP debate yesterday Penny Mordaunt says she will be putting case studies in the House of Commons Library to demonstrate how someone suffering from psychological distress can still score 12 points on Mobility Activity 1 -

Several Members have concluded that if someone is suffering from psychological distress, that would not count towards their score and they would somehow be prevented from scoring the maximum on the descriptors. That is not the case. As time is tight, perhaps I could place some case studies in the Library if that is in order, Mr Speaker. As has been pointed out, if someone is suffering from autism, PTSD, depression or a similar condition, they can score 12 points on that descriptor.

https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2017-03-29/debates/80B479C2-C920-4BB5-A785-BCE26664EB4B/PersonalIndependencePaymentRegulations#contribution-AAA231E7-21DD-4C51-84C7-051860CBEDEA

 

     
Dan Manville
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You can’t tell from Stat Xplore the proportion of indefinite awards, simply awards over 5 years’ duration. Most are over 5 years though

     
Mr Finch
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I’m looking at what Helen Whately said in that debate. She refers to several meetings with ‘the minister’ (presumably meaning Mordaunt). She says she was reassured that her constituent who needs someone with her due to PTSD will still be assessed as in need of support to go out. If this reassurance was actually given, it would appear to be wrong.

     
stuart
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Jane OP - 21 March 2017 02:03 PM

Anyone know if similar amendments to the regs are going to be made in Northern Ireland?

Thanks

Jane

Regulations are now out for Northern Ireland - commencing on 20 April

http://www.rightsnet.org.uk/welfare-rights/news/item/amendments-to-pip-daily-living-activity-3-and-mobility-activity-1-in-northe

     
Daphne
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Responding to the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments the DWP have given examples of where people with mental conditions (but not physical condition) can get enhanced rate mobility -

- a person with a cognitive impairment who cannot, due to their impairment, work out where to go, follow directions or deal with unexpected changes in their journey, even when the journey is familiar, would score 12 points under descriptor f in mobility activity 1, and hence be entitled to the enhanced rate of the mobility component - examples of such conditions could include dementia, or a learning disability such as Down’s Syndrome;
- a person with a developmental disorder could qualify if the disorder affects their ability to work out where to go, follow directions or deal with unexpected changes in their journey, and they have difficulty assessing and responding to risks, or in impulsivity, as they could also score 12 points under descriptor f on the basis that they need to be accompanied for their own safety - examples of developmental disorders which could have these effects include Autistic Spectrum Disorder and Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder;
- a person who suffers psychosomatic pain could qualify for the enhanced rate through satisfying descriptors e or f in mobility activity 2; and
- a person who has chronic fatigue syndrome and experiences symptoms including significant fatigue following physical exertion, muscular and joint pain and balance problems, together with psychological difficulties which manifest as depression and panic attacks, could qualify for the enhanced rate under mobility activity 2, or by scoring points on a combination of mobility activity 1 (4 points under descriptor b, for requiring prompting to avoid psychological distress when undertaking any journey) and mobility activity 2 (8 points under descriptor c, for being able to stand and then move unaided more than 20m but no more than 50m).

Some might think the last two did involve physical conditions…

http://www.rightsnet.org.uk/welfare-rights/news/item/recent-amendments-to-pip-regulations-do-not-preclude-people-with-mental-con

     
Mr Finch
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The problem with that is she didn’t say ‘mental condition’, she said ’ if someone is suffering from autism, PTSD, depression or a similar condition, they can score 12 points on that descriptor.’

     
Jon (CHDCA)
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Minister’s statement, from http://www.rightsnet.org.uk/welfare-rights/news/item/pip-awards-made-by-the-dwp-will-not-be-reduced-as-a-result-of-amendments-to

No PIP claimants will see a reduction in the amount of PIP previously awarded by the DWP as a result of the regulations being introduced, including the point at which their claim is next reviewed.

I’m struggling to understand this. A PIP claimant with overwhelming psychological distress will be assessed differently, depending on if this a new claim or a renewal, with the latter being treated as if the pre-March descriptors still applied somehow??

     
Elliot Kent
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I think what he is saying is that because the DWP never actually implemented MH, there is no practical difference between the DWP version of the old regs and the new regs. You will be re-assessed against the new regs but, if the facts are the same then the result will be the same.

However, if your award was made by a Tribunal - who have been applying MH - then when you are assessed against the new regs, you can potentially expect a reduced award

Its an extremely clumsy statement and it does give the initial impression that the DWP are simply going to apply the old and new regs whenever they feel like it but I think the intent is as above.

     
Jon (CHDCA)
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Thanks for the explanation Elliot. I’m not so sure that it’s only tribunals have been interpreting the descriptors as they say, but I can see what they’re getting at.

     
Daphne
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House of Commons briefing that -

looks at controversial proposals put forward by the Government to change the eligibility criteria for Personal Independence Payment (PIP) from 16 March 2017, to reverse the effect of two recent Upper Tribunal judgments.

http://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/CBP-7911

     
stuart
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Debate on motion to revoke regulations is to take place tomorrow in the House of Commons…

http://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/CDP-2017-0115

     
Barbara Knight
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Debate didn’t happen something to do with an election!

     
Daphne
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Written question in parliament asking how many people with various mental health issues currently get PIP based on points scored for Mobility Activity 1c, 1d, or 1f - http://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/written-questions-answers-statements/written-question/Commons/2017-04-13/70624

Interestingly, there are 24,800 - although obviously they may not all have qualified due to psychological distress. However, it seems likely that some of them will have qualified on that basis and stand to lose their awards when reassessed whatever Penny says here - http://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/written-questions-answers-statements/written-question/Commons/2017-04-13/70623