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mixed age couple esa/hb/sdp
couple male aged 65 - pension age in july 2020
female aged 60 - not pension age until 2025
male claims HB for them both - with 1 bed tax
male is getting PIP SRDL and ESA for the couple in support group
female claims CA for him
when he reaches pension age then usually would HB stop straight away? or can it carry on if they don’t claim UC?
assuming HB and ESA stops then female will have to claim UC for them both and get paid working age rate ? will she still get LCWRA element for him?
she is very unwell herself - told her to claim PIP, assuming she gets awarded daily living but unlikely to be awarded before July when he reaches pension age. and HB will stop have stopped automatically by the time she gets PIP?
if HB doesnt stop and she gets daily living PIP then she can stop CA and he can add on SDP to HB Award - then i was thinking she could claim ESA with double SDP? - but read on CPAG website that she cant claim ESA as she isnt the main claimant on the HB award with the SDP as HB award in his name?
if HB does stop in July - then say she gets PIP daily living in September then it would be of no help? or could we reopen HB claim as now entitled to SDP backdated so shouldn’t have closed? she would have to stop CA now just in case?
if she can claim ESA then will she get a pensioner premium or not?
I think you are correct that in the situation you outline HB stops along with ESA.
It is incorrect to say the female will have to claim UC - they would both have to claim. The UC claim would include the LCWRA element and the carer element.
Depending on how her illness affects her I wonder if it is possible for the male to stop his ESA claim (or at least the income based part if it is a hybrid award) and for the female to claim income based ESA instead (albeit she will not be in the Support Group so there will be a loss of income). If the Housing Benefit was also switched to her then when they reach pension age the ESA and HB will depend on the younger claimant and can continue. This would give you the breathing space for her PIP claim to be progressed until you know whether they can get a double SDP.
A potential difficulty with that suggestion is that if the male does have a contribution based ESA entitlement and the relaxation of the normal NI contribution rules for carers results in the female also being entitled to contribution based ESA there may actually be no entitlement to income based ESA. In the absence of a means tested benefit other than HB I think the HB would still stop even if in the name of the younger party.
There can’t be an SDP in payment due to her claiming Carer’s Allowance for taking care of him.
As such, both the income-related ESA and HB awards stop when he reaches pension age and their only choice as far as I can see is then to claim UC.
If the UC claim is made whilst they’re still getting ESA, then reg.19 of the UC Transitional Regs allows the LCWRA element to be paid from the start of the UC award (although you might need to remind DWP about this as it’s often missed out).
If she could establish entitlement to PIP daily living component before he reaches SPA and they could get at least single rate SDP into payment, then they could remain on ESA and HB. if the PIP decision doesn’t come before he reaches SPA however, they ESA and HB awards will stop so not sure what they’d live on, nor whether you’d be able to argue for reinstatement retrospectively..
You can’t swap the ESA award between claimants Ian, so there’s no mileage in that.
yes dont think you can just switch ESA or HB claimants??
if she stops CA now and gets PIP then adds SDP to HB can she claim ESA or not because the HB award with the SDP isnt in her name
if she does claim ESA would she get pensioner rate?
She can’t claim ESA unless she’s entitled to New Style ESA. That’s not worth thinking about, it’s only his ESA award that can be saved here and that is only if they get an SDP included in it or the HB award and that’s only if she gets PIP DL component.
No new style ESA or conts based ESA entitlement for either.
So we looking at saving his ESA
Can she not claim ESA because the Hb claim isn’t her in her name.
It’s likely that Hb and ESA will end before she gets pip. So they either claim UC or hold off and hope she gets pip and hope can then resurrect Hb and ESA ?
She can’t claim ESA unless she’s entitled to New Style ESA. That’s not worth thinking about, it’s only his ESA award that can be saved here and that is only if they get an SDP included in it or the HB award and that’s only if she gets PIP DL component.
Didn’t think that through properly did I! Sometimes thinking about two parallel systems goes off track.
[ Edited: 9 Jun 2020 at 06:20 pm by Ianb ]If claim is made for UC make sure it is done in advance so you get the 2 week run on of HB.
No new style ESA or conts based ESA entitlement for either.
So we looking at saving his ESA
Can she not claim ESA because the Hb claim isn’t her in her name.
It’s likely that Hb and ESA will end before she gets pip. So they either claim UC or hold off and hope she gets pip and hope can then resurrect Hb and ESA ?
She can’t claim ESA because UC has replaced it. It has absolutely nothing to do with the HB award.
The ESA and HB award will stop when he reaches SPA unless either award includes an SDP at that point in which case they can remain in payment due to the SDP gateway.
If the ESA and HB awards stop when he reaches SPA, there may be a possibility of reviving the HB award I think, provided the PIP entitlement precedes him reaching SPA and they are entitled to an SDP. This is because regulation 4(7C) of the Housing Benefit and Council Tax Benefit (Decisions and Appeals) Regulations 2001 enables “any time” revision back to date HB award stopped. If this happens, then I think the HB award might be able to be reinstated on the basis that it shouldn’t have stopped due to the SDP gateway provisions for MAC’s.
Whether that would also lead to the ESA award being able to be reinstated is beyond my knowledge to be quite frank. Presumably it would, otherwise your client would be able to be paid HB and not UC but that would only cover their housing costs and nothing for personal allowance etc. There’s also the issue that they might actually be better off on UC with a LCWRA and carer’s element anyway.
Didn’t think that through properly did I! Sometimes thinking about two parallel systems goes off track.
Don’t worry Ian, I keep doing exactly the same thing, it’s like a Pavlovian reaction.
perfect paul - brilliant explanation - thanks so much
take care
If claim is made for UC make sure it is done in advance so you get the 2 week run on of HB.
And ensure that the LCWRA element carries over from the start of the UC claim
Didn’t think that through properly did I! Sometimes thinking about two parallel systems goes off track.
Don’t worry Ian, I keep doing exactly the same thing, it’s like a Pavlovian reaction.
Glad I’m not the only one. Sometimes too the obvious thing is the correct thing and trying to be clever is a mistake!