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Forum Home  →  Discussion  →  Covid-19 issues  →  Thread

Legal opinion on smartphone contact tracing

shawn mach
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With the Isle of Wight getting access to the new contact tracing app this week, thought this was of interest ...

Matthew Ryder QC and Edward Craven from Matrix, along with Ravi Naik solicitor and legal director AWO, a new data rights agency, and Gayatri Sarathy of Blackstone chambers, have been instructed by Open Society Foundation to provide a detailed legal opinion on smartphone contact tracing and other data driven proposals that are part of the Government’s response to the Covid-19 pandemic.

More: https://www.matrixlaw.co.uk/news/legal-advice-on-smartphone-contact-tracing-published/

Den DANES
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I don’t really know how this will work and what data will be stored and for how long, but one of my concerns was can the data be used for other purposes eg evidence in criminal or even benefit fraud investigations. This might be a stupid suggestion but if it tracks someone and they are in a rural area for example with no public transport would it show they had eg been out alone (planning and following points) or walked more than 200 metres ?

Paul_Treloar_AgeUK
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Have you got Google Maps on your smartphone? If so, your movements and so on are already being tracked and recorded.

Den DANES
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Yes but currently not being regularly tracked for everyone (as far as we know…)

Mike Hughes
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Paul_Treloar_AgeUK - 06 May 2020 12:12 PM

Have you got Google Maps on your smartphone? If so, your movements and so on are already being tracked and recorded.

Google Maps is irrelevant to the discussion really. If you use 4G or wi-fi then you’re being tracked and your supposedly anonymous date being sold to data mining companies; advertisers etc. If you use Location Service for weather then you’re being tracked. If you open a browser to look at a site then you’re giving away your browser type; MAC address and so on.

Now go buy something online or in a shop. Visa know your name, address etc. Each purchase produces location data. That also supposedly anonymous data is sold to those exact same companies. Computing power equivalent to the device you’re likely reading this on is all that’s needed to cross match that data; figure out where you live; where you work and so on.

Now add in those parking or speeding fines. What did you pay them with? What do you know already about that data?

Anyone see that beautiful graphic representation of Spring Breakers on a Florida beach and how they then spread across the USA? It was then correlated with the data on Covid-19. Looked beautiful but you should genuinely be concerned.

Minority Report anyone? The rubicon has long since been crossed in respect of privacy. Any tracking app is just another staging post in that regard. The bigger question is frankly just the more simple one of whether it will even work.

Paul_Treloar_AgeUK
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Google is discussing sharing aggregated and anonymised location data from its apps with the UK government, to show whether people are practising social distancing to combat the coronavirus.

The technology giant told New Scientist it was at very early stages of seeing how it could share trends in location data, similar to a Google Maps feature that allows users to see when certain locations are busy. But it stressed it hadn’t yet shared any data with authorities.

The effort is part of wider talks between tech firms and governments on how countries can judge whether official guidance is affecting patterns of travel and where people are gathering, rather than trying to track individuals.

Unlike Google, UK mobile network operator O2 has already begun sharing aggregated location data with the UK government, Sky News reported. Executives from telecoms firm BT and the largest network operator, EE, also met officials last week to discuss how cellphone companies can help the government, The Guardian reported.

Google may help UK officials track coronavirus social distancing

Chrissum
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Of course if you are of little brain like myself and constantly forget to take your mobile with you when you leave home, this app may not be of great use…

nevip
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shawn mach
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NHS coronavirus advisory board split over ditching government app

The NHS coronavirus app’s advisory board is split over whether it has the authority to tell the government to ditch its version and switch to a decentralised model proposed by Apple and Google.

After a meeting on Thursday, it emerged that members argued their role on the board is limited to providing guidance on ethical questions – and not to branch out into a broader discussion of whether the app is the right tool for the job.

... There is growing acknowledgement within No 10 that the NHSX app is having difficulties and may not survive in its current form following trials on the Isle of Wight. Software for a decentralised version by Apple and Google is expected to be released on Tuesday.

While there are data ethics questions raised by the government’s app, which will collect data about the spread of the disease and store it centrally for analysis, some of the members’ concerns focus on more prosaic issues, like uptake or effectiveness ....

Members told the Guardian of concerns that a lack of transparency and a rush to deploy the technology without proper testing risk compromising the project.

Several members said they felt their work had been impeded because they had been given limited oversight.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/14/nhs-coronavirus-advisory-board-split-over-ditching-government-app

shawn mach
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Article from Stephen Cragg QC, barrister at Doughty Street Chambers, via the Legal Action Group:

The idea that the majority of the population should voluntarily install an app onto their smartphone that potentially gives the government access to personal information about their health, is one that would have been met with incredulity only a few months ago. But that is exactly what we will be expected to do, if plans for the NHS app to allow for digital contact tracing materialise. What are people letting themselves in for?

More: https://www.lag.org.uk/?id=208260

shawn mach
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Dido Harding, who runs NHS Test and Trace, and Matthew Gould, who heads NHSX, the NHS’s digital policy arm, have issued a statement confirming the decision to scrap the current contact-tracing app. There had been “specific technical challenges” with the app, they said. They went on:

“Our response to this virus has and will continue to be as part of an international effort. That is why as part of a collaborative approach we have agreed to share our own innovative work on estimating distance between app users with Google and Apple, work that we hope will benefit others, while using their solution to address some of the specific technical challenges identified through our rigorous testing.

We will also draw on the invaluable insight from all of those who trialled the app on the Isle of Wight – and the brilliant teams who have worked on it to date – to build an app that can form part of the end-to-end NHS Test and Trace service and this insight will be integral to the next phase of development.”

More: The Guardian Live blog

 

Paul_Treloar_AgeUK
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What a complete shambles. These people are useless.

Mike Hughes
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Depends on who “these people” are, and…

Are they?

There’s no right answer here. It was observed repeatedly at the outset of this that an app was pointless. A thing you do because it sounds impressive. It’s turned into a debate about which app model is better or more secure or should follow the allegedly fine examples of other countries but the reality is that none of it matters. You have false negatives running at 2 in 3 and false positives doing the same. You have technology which isn’t available to all and Bluetooth being touted as a solution which is so laughable it’s hard to know where to start. A technology which drains phone batteries; leaves devices vulnerable; can tell another device is close but can’t tell whether it’s the other side of a wall and thus irrelevant.

NHS bods were always going to be pulled into this but the real issue is about them lacking clout to resist stupid ideas.

shawn mach
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Vonny
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Anyone would think that the gov have a track record on quickly and cheaply sorting out computer systems

Mike Hughes
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Vonny - 24 June 2020 08:59 AM

Anyone would think that the gov have a track record on quickly and cheaply sorting out computer systems

Well they do… :)

Gareth Morgan
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Quick, cheap or good

Any two out of the three