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Forum Home  →  Discussion  →  Work capability issues and ESA  →  Thread

Interactions between UC Waiting Period and ESA Assessment period

Tom Messere
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This is relevant in a specific client case but has got me thinking more widely. Oh dear…

The client has claimed UC with limited capability and passes the WCA while “awaiting, receiving and recovering” from cancer treatments. His initial enquiry is as to when he actually gets the LCWRA element added?

As we all know there is a “three month” waiting period in UC - a sort of equivalent to ESA assessment phase- but the books’ explanations can be vague . Yes, all are clear that it starts from the day a GP’s sicknote is received by UC, but what happens at t’other end?

One explanation is that payment is triggered for the monthly assessment period after the one in which the three months are up. I’m thinking hmmm…

In my head, the 3 month alarm goes off on the allotted day and in doing so triggers a change in circs for the whole of that assessment period, rather than having to wait until the assessment period after. Of course,  the payment for that MAP will appear at the payday at the end, so it still feels a lot longer than 3 months since the GP’s note went in.

Or am I being a month previous, and he will need to wait until the payday for the MAP that is entirely clear of the waiting period to catch site of his LCWRA element? Not just a matter of how much patience, so much as he may not feel any benefit then, as his UC will be wiped out by SEISS ...

The further thought is another potential advantage to an Ns-ESA claim while also claiming UC.  A lot of the time we are persuading UC staff not to insist on a UC claim being made to allow them to issue an ESA claim form, when many clients will get ESA but not UC. Thank heavens, then, for the new online ESA claim :-)

But where UC is needed, UC will say ” Don’t bother, as it is only taken off your UC”. However, there are still other advantages: full NI credits, some payment fortnightly without having to beg for this (outside Scotland and NI), some money not in an all in one UC basket and ESA linking rules.

But the new one that comes to mind,  is that the UC “waiting period”  does not apply if an ESA component is in payment. So,  if someone is a bit late in claiming their benefits - as can often be the case in the shock of a new cancer diagnosis, especially if a client has with some immediate other income -  then the easy backdating of Ns-ESA has always been worth claiming anyway,  for extra cash prior to the UC claim.

However,  if for the sake of example,  the full 3 months backdating of an ESA claim was relevant, then might a claimant become more or less entitled to receive their ESA component with effect from the day the ESA claim was put in?

And if that had been done at the point of claiming both UC and ESA, then in this extreme scenario might the UC “waiting period”  be more or less entirely removed with LCWRA element kicking in from the first UC payment?

In practise, though,  the benefit of this may lie more in reducing -  rather than entirely avoiding -  the UC waiting period. So, does such a cunning plan work?

So me questions are:
a) how exactly does the full UC waiting period work in terms of first payment? and
b) can it be shortened by a backdated ESA claim?

A nice coffee break conundrum…

[ Edited: 12 May 2020 at 02:43 pm by Tom Messere ]
Ianb
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Tom Messere - 12 May 2020 01:35 PM

In my head, the 3 month alarm goes off on the allotted day and in doing so triggers a change in circs for the whole of that assessment period, rather than having to wait until the assessment period after. Of course,  the payment for that MAP will appear at the payday at the end, so it still feels a lot longer than 3 months since the GP’s note went in.

Or am I being a month previous, and he will need to wait until the payday for the MAP that is entirely clear of the waiting period to catch site of his LCWRA element?

It’s the latter. Obviously if claimant declares health condition at point of claim the LCWRA element is payable in the fourth payment (subject to outcome of WCA of course). If claimant declares health condition after start of claim the relevant period expires three months later and the LCWRA is included in the next complete MAP.

Tom Messere - 12 May 2020 01:35 PM

But the new one that comes to mind,  is that the UC “waiting period”  does not apply if an ESA component is in payment. So,  if someone is a bit late in claiming their benefits - as can often be the case in the shock of a new cancer diagnosis, especially if a client has with some immediate other income -  then the easy backdating of Ns-ESA has always been worth claiming anyway,  for extra cash prior to the UC claim.

However,  if for the sake of example,  the full 3 months backdating of an ESA claim was relevant, then might a claimant become more or less entitled to receive their ESA component with effect from the day the ESA claim was put in?

In principle yes. Advice to Decision Makers is clear that if UC claimant is already in ESA Support Group then LCWRA is payable from start of UC claim. Even if ESA WCA is not completed until after start of UC claim, provided the Support Group then starts prior to start of UC claim the claimant will still be entitled to LCWRA from start of claim and can request arrears payment.

The problem area is when a claimant claims UC part way through the ESA Assessment period. ADM says that the claimant has to serve the full 3 month UC relevant period. This puts them in the situation of getting Support Group component of ESA whilst not getting LCWRA element of UC in calculation. It can therefore benefit a client with ESA backdating to claim ESA and then claim UC slightly later (particularly if there are no additional UC elements to consider).

However it is arguable that the ADM approach is incorrect and that as soon as claimant is in Support Group they should be entitled to LCWRA element regardless, even if their UC claim is less than 3 months. This has been discussed before but I can’t find the thread.

Tom Messere
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Thanks, Ian,

Right so the end of a waiting period is not a change of circumstances as we know it

While the ADM seeks to put limits on a cunning scam. But if I understand you right, it could be a good idea to get ESA to backdate claim first especially when confirmation of WCA status is potentially quick (as in the “awaiting, receiving and recovering from cancer treatment”  provision) so that with the backdating, the SC may effectively be in payment at time of UC claim?

I will look out the discussion on the correctness of the ADM. I guess back in the day all matters re assessment were dealt with by IB and IS (for sickness) simply followed suit. But UC is too Dom of a benefit to take orders from pesky irritant small fry like ESA that it sometimes appears that it wishes to extinguish :-)

A matter of time before DWP announce: “oh this is all too complicated ,  lets just abolish C-ESA and Cb-JSA entirely to simplify, better target resources and save £2.5 billion” :-) Might the ongoing confusion over claiming Ns-ESA be more knowing than it looks lol

[ Edited: 26 May 2020 at 09:40 am by Tom Messere ]
Ianb
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Tom Messere - 26 May 2020 09:38 AM

I will look out the discussion on the correctness of the ADM.

This is the discussion I remembered https://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/15567/.

In the past simply backdating the ESA and waiting for the Support Group decision before applying for UC wasn’t too much of issue because the assessment rate for ESA and UC standard allowance matched (in cases where there were no housing costs and/or children to be included). Delaying UC has more impact now because of the temporary increases to the UC allowances.

[ Edited: 26 May 2020 at 06:28 pm by Ianb ]