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Help with PIP appeal

CDV Adviser
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I’m looking for some pointers to help with a PIP appeal I’m completing. The client suffers from depression and anxiety following a brain injury. He doesn’t eat very well and generally relies on ready meals. He has to motivate himself in the morning to eat, shower, dress etc but doesn’t receive prompting from another person although he generally eats better and makes more of an effort when someone is with him.

Dan_Manville
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So he’s not cooking, does he keep himself nourished or is he losing weight? Might there be points on activity 2?

He can dress and bathe himself to a reasonable standard and does so without prompting? Showering once a week and wearing the same clothes until they’re tired and a bit smelly might still require some prompting to do those things “to a reasonable standard”...

If he’s suffering depression is he engaging with other people? Prompting to engage is a pretty low bar and with a brain injury can he manage a household budget?

Taking nutrition is a pretty high bar if he’s fulfilling his appetite; discounting that, with cooking, engaging and complex budgeting decisions I can see only 6 points unless dressing or bething are engaged or he needs social support rather than simple prompting to engage.

[ Edited: 11 Oct 2019 at 11:55 am by Dan_Manville ]
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He doesn’t eat regularly and his weight is constantly up and down. Sometimes he’ll lose weight as he doesn’t eat enough; at other times he’ll gain weight because he’s eating high-calorie foods (takeaways).

He showers 3 times a week and has to motivate himself to do so. The rest of the time he doesn’t bother. He does this without prompting from another person but it takes him a while to motivate himself.

I’m confident he’ll score points under activity 9 as he struggles to engage with other people but also has some anger issues.

He has a professional deputy.

I’m looking at 1(d), 2(d), 4(c), 9(c) and 9(d)(ii) and 10(b).

Dan_Manville
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Phil R - 11 October 2019 11:14 AM

I’m looking at 1(d), 2(d), 4(c), 9(c) and 9(d)(ii) and 10(b).

I think 4(c) is a bit optimistic if he’s showering under his own steam but there’s still an award without it.

SamW
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Dan Manville - 11 October 2019 11:54 AM
Phil R - 11 October 2019 11:14 AM

I’m looking at 1(d), 2(d), 4(c), 9(c) and 9(d)(ii) and 10(b).

I think 4(c) is a bit optimistic if he’s showering under his own steam but there’s still an award without it.

IMHO a reasonable frequency/standard of personal hygiene is to wash fully (i.e. shower/bath rather than strip wash) every day. Obviously some people will by choice wash more or less frequently but I think if you asked a wide range of people once a day would be your average response.

If client here is washing 3 times a week then that is less than 50% of days and he should score points.

grant
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If he has a professional deputy through the Court of Protection then surely by definition he lacks capacity and shouldn’t 10d apply?

Dan_Manville
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grant - 14 October 2019 09:46 AM

If he has a professional deputy through the Court of Protection then surely by definition he lacks capacity and shouldn’t 10d apply?

That lack of capacity is decision specific; it’s entirely possible that someone can make change but not be able to deal with broader budgetting issues and need a deputy.

Mental Capacity is a very focussed test; too many people see “lacks capacity” and apply a broad brush but that isn’t the case in law.

 

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grant - 14 October 2019 09:46 AM

If he has a professional deputy through the Court of Protection then surely by definition he lacks capacity and shouldn’t 10d apply?

He handles most of his finances himself regardless of the deputy so I can’t see him being awarded 10(d)

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SamW - 11 October 2019 03:02 PM
Dan Manville - 11 October 2019 11:54 AM
Phil R - 11 October 2019 11:14 AM

I’m looking at 1(d), 2(d), 4(c), 9(c) and 9(d)(ii) and 10(b).

I think 4(c) is a bit optimistic if he’s showering under his own steam but there’s still an award without it.

IMHO a reasonable frequency/standard of personal hygiene is to wash fully (i.e. shower/bath rather than strip wash) every day. Obviously some people will by choice wash more or less frequently but I think if you asked a wide range of people once a day would be your average response.

If client here is washing 3 times a week then that is less than 50% of days and he should score points.

He washes on the other days, he just doesn’t shower.

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Phil R - 11 October 2019 11:14 AM

He showers 3 times a week and has to motivate himself to do so. The rest of the time he doesn’t bother. He does this without prompting from another person but it takes him a while to motivate himself.

You can look at the time taken - if it’s taking him twice as long because he’s motivating himself rather than outside prompting then there might be an argument.

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Daphne - 15 October 2019 10:23 AM
Phil R - 11 October 2019 11:14 AM

He showers 3 times a week and has to motivate himself to do so. The rest of the time he doesn’t bother. He does this without prompting from another person but it takes him a while to motivate himself.

You can look at the time taken - if it’s taking him twice as long because he’s motivating himself rather than outside prompting then there might be an argument.

That’s the line I’ve taken Daphne.

S2uABZ
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Thought i’d jump on this thread as i’m looking for some pointers on ‘Dressing and Undressing’.

I’m finding those, particularly with physical health problems, bad backs etc struggle to get 8 points. It was commonly 1B, 4B, 5B & 6B. I’ve noticed a few cases where 6B is not getting awarded and i struggle for a cogent argument.

Any thoughts?
cheers

Va1der
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S2uABZ - 17 February 2020 09:59 AM

Thought i’d jump on this thread as i’m looking for some pointers on ‘Dressing and Undressing’.

I’m finding those, particularly with physical health problems, bad backs etc struggle to get 8 points. It was commonly 1B, 4B, 5B & 6B. I’ve noticed a few cases where 6B is not getting awarded and i struggle for a cogent argument.

Any thoughts?
cheers

Shoes/socks and specific choice of clothing (loose fitting, shirt rather than jumpers etc) is the most typical awards I see.
I’ve had the opposite experience with 6b lately, surprisingly low bar.

pipinfo.net has a lot of useful caselaw that might help you.