Forum Home → Discussion → Residence issues → Thread
Pre Settled Status
Hello All,
Are we right in thinking that pre-settled stats for EU Citizens does not confer a R2R for Benefits?
It would appear that to get pre-settled status you need only show that you have been in the UK for six months out of 12 for a period of 5 years? As such this would not be the same as being here as a qualified person i.e. worker, workseeker etc
Thank you in advance
https://www.gov.uk/settled-status-eu-citizens-families/applying-for-settled-status
Pre-settled status
If you do not have 5 years’ continuous residence, you’ll usually get ‘pre-settled status’ instead.
You can stay in the UK for a further 5 years from the date you get pre-settled status.
Changing your pre-settled status to settled status
You can apply to change your status as soon as you’ve got 5 years’ continuous residence. If you apply after April 2019, it will be free.
Your rights with pre-settled status
You can spend up to 2 years in a row outside the UK without losing your pre-settled status, but you will need to maintain your continuous residence if you want to qualify for settled status.
You will be able to:
work in the UK
use the NHS
enrol in education or continue studying
access public funds such as benefits and pensions, if you’re eligible for them
travel in and out of the UK
Any children born in the UK after you’ve got pre-settled status will be automatically eligible for pre-settled status. They will only be a British citizen if they qualify for it through their other parent.
Claire
Thank you, that is where I got the details from - my question is does - access public funds such as benefits and pensions, if you’re eligible for them - mean that pre-settled means you have R2R and that ‘if you’re eligible’ means the other conditions so for UC with LCW you have a R2R but have to also show LCW etc
Might just be me, but that is not clear
Cheers
Claire
Thank you, that is where I got the details from - my question is does - access public funds such as benefits and pensions, if you’re eligible for them - mean that pre-settled means you have R2R and that ‘if you’re eligible’ means the other conditions so for UC with LCW you have a R2R but have to also show LCW etc
Might just be me, but that is not clear
Cheers
well to me it is clear. but just because it says that on THAT website, doesn’t mean the DWP would agree….
this stuff is about immigration and no doubt under the control of home office/borders agency.
however, if someone gets such a status officially confirmed by HO/BA, i think the DWP would be in difficulty saying they don’t have RTR for benefits purposes. Which won’t stop them trying to say that, of course.
I should think it’s going to be a case of apply and see ..... and then go to tribunal
I think it would be enormously dangerous to make any confident predictions about any of this given the current situation.
So to have a R2R you have to be continuously engaged as a ‘qualified person’ for five years, yet pre-settled status you only need to show that you have been here 6 out of 12 months for five years, that doesn’t tally with R2R to me
Anyway, thanks to you both for your input.
So to have a R2R you have to be continuously engaged as a ‘qualified person’ for five years, yet pre-settled status you only need to show that you have been here 6 out of 12 months for five years, that doesn’t tally with R2R to me
Anyway, thanks to you both for your input.
also i think (i might be wrong) the pre settled and settled status stuff is about Brexit. if Brexit doesn’t happen it’ll probably be irrelevant.
According to the Statement of Intent (at 3.5) “.. they will continue to have the same entitlements as now to work, study and access public services and benefits, according to the same rules as now.”
Doesn’t “the same rules are now” mean you may need to show that you qualify as a worker, student, etc, in order to qualify?
( I feel like “unsettled” could be a more accurate name than “pre-settled”..)
This is my concern, question. It could seem too good to be true
It’s already law - in Appendix EU of the Immigration Rules.
Settled status is indefinite leave to remain.
Pre-settled status is limited leave to remain.
You can claim benefits, get health care, work, etc. under either limited or indefinite leave to remain - the difference between ILR and LLR is just that LLR only lasts five years (or less if you leave the UK for more than two years).
The rules for getting ILR or LLR under Appendix EU are basically the same, except that for ILR the applicant can already prove five years continuous residence. But it doesn’t have to be five years lawful residence under the Citizens Directive 2004/38/EC - which makes it more generous than the current system. The applicant doesn’t have to have maintained worker status, or been self-sufficient with comprehensive sickness insurance, etc. like they do to get the permanent right of residence under Article 16 of the Directive.
But it’s all going to be irrelevant once we stop Brexit.
Hello All,
Are we right in thinking that pre-settled stats for EU Citizens does not confer a R2R for Benefits?
It would appear that to get pre-settled status you need only show that you have been in the UK for six months out of 12 for a period of 5 years? As such this would not be the same as being here as a qualified person i.e. worker, workseeker etc
Thank you in advance
So to answer this question…
No; limited leave to remain confers a R2R (but you would still need to be habitually resident for a lot of benefits).
But to get LLR you just have to have arrived before “2359 Greenwich Mean Time on 31 December 2020” (the “specified date”).
But it will all be irrelevant once we stop Brexit (I’ll never get tired of saying that).
I’ve asked this question so many times & I’ve yet to find a civil servant who understands it! DWP/DExEU & the Home Office are unclear & I’ve had different answers. I think there’s a difference between intention (‘your rights will be the same as they are now’, as they keep saying) & effect. And the effect, so far, looks too good to be true so I’d be keeping my eyes peeled for changes.
I cannot see how a pre-settled status cannot translate as a ‘right to reside’, & it isn’t excluded in any regs (yet) as far as I know.
I note that the Immigration (EEA) Regs 2016 define a ‘right to reside’ as ‘a right to reside under these regulations’ (see reg 2). So perhaps the DWP intend to argue that because these regs still apply (and will do after 29.3.19 if the Withdrawal Agreement has effect!!??) then neither pre-settled nor settled status is enough by itself? However, I don’t see how they can do that because, for UC for example, you have to work from reg 9 UC regs & that only says which rights to reside don’t count (rather than which do). And ‘a right to reside’ is not defined in the UC regs so I’d argue it has to have its ordinary meaning and so include pre-settled & settled status.
CB Regs, reg 23(4) - again, that says ‘a right to reside’, it isn’t defined in the CB regs, so arguably if you have a right to reside in the ordinary meaning of those words, you cannot be treated as not in GB.
So basically my advice would be to go benefit by benefit & see what was possible to argue, claim if indicated & see what happens! I’ll confess I haven’t looked at every benefit affected but those are going to be the main ones (be good to check HB as well given the many situations in which that can still be claimed, & of course irESA/ibJSA/IS for all those SDP claimants who might be excluded from UC next year…).
I agree with Timothy but not just because settled status is ILR etc. If you go into the benefits legislation, look at how people are currently excluded from benefit & think about whether that could still apply to someone with pre-settled or settled status, then it looks as if it’s enough, at the moment. Maybe they are planning to add some exclusions (they could easily do so, if you look at reg 9 UC regs for example, by saying a right to reside does not include pre-settled/settled status unless the person also has a right to reside under the non-excluded bits of Immigration (EEA) Regs 2016….but they haven’t done that! Yet).
The Immigration Rules are reasonably clear at the moment, and the effect of them is to grant ILR or LLR. This is a right to reside. This means they don’t need to look to EU law (and the Immigration (EEA) Regs) for a right - you don’t need two rights to reside.
I think there’s a danger of getting distracted by the uncertainty over Brexit. Yes, it is true that we don’t know whether the government will change the Immigration Rules to make them less generous in the future, or change the benefits regs to exclude certain people with LLR. But it’s also true that we don’t know whether Brexit will actually happen. We’re talking about not being able to predict the future. We’re talking about the reliability, honesty, and integrity of politicians.
But all we can look at is the law as it stands, and as the government has said it will be: which is Appendix EU. It is more generous than you’d expect, but I think that’s partly an attempt to keep the EU happy, and partly a pragmatic recognition that we need to be as generous as possible to avoid a truly disastrous exodus of workers. And there is no doubt that the government intended it to be like it is, because they’ve said so.
also, of course, far be it from the home office/borders agency to talk to the DWP (or anyone else) when looking at their bits, or the DWP ditto…. no sign of any joined up thinking anywhere, and you can guarantee that the “statutory language” has a different meaning in the different contexts…...even a plain english word can end up in that situation….
NRPF Network are stating re Pre Settled Status
“Eligibility for public funds (benefits and social housing) appears to be based on current rules, i.e. having a right to reside on a particular basis under free movement laws [SI 7.5]”
Appears to be based is of course a guarded formulation. Still.
In practice, in absence of concrete information, I reckon folks are going to carry on exactly the same way as they have done for the last couple of years, as EU Law is now incorporated into UK law?
IN UC MR Decision, DWP are saying Settled Status means:
”you had to prove you had merely been resident in the UK for 5 continuous years. This is different from the UC rules which require you to be resident as a qualified person for 5 years. Although the letter states you have access to public funds, this only means you are entitled to apply for public funds.”
Beyond belief is my view!