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Forum Home  →  Discussion  →  Work capability issues and ESA  →  Thread

Complaints and Correspondence Review Team - ’why he has to provide fit notes when he has LCWRA’

Andyp5 Citizens Advice Bridport & District
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Extract from the Complaints and Correspondence Review Team letter based in Newcastle in response to a letter from us on behalf of a client.

‘There is no legislation governing the request for fit notes when moving from ESA to UC or following the end date of the prognosis. As the two benefits are administered by different offices, it takes time for the ESA office to provide a MGP1 form showing the details of Mr….......... limited capability for work status. The UC office will request fit notes until receipt of the MPG1 form which was received on .......... Mr…....... prognosis ends on .....2019 and he will be required to provide fit notes after this date. If after a further medical appointment Mr…......... condition remains the same, he will no longer be expected to submit fit notes until a further prognosis is exhausted’.

Extracts from a local area DWP letter in response to…............

Issues raised by CA on 20/07/18 at Bridport Jobcentre
1. ‘Customers claiming ESA and in the support group that have a change of circumstances and then claim UCFS are reporting they are not having the previous WCA outcome recorded on their new claim.  They are being referred for another WCA and not being paid the correct amount they would receive if recognised as having limited capability for work and work related activity.

The WCA completed whilst on ESA will move with the Customer.  Where a Customer makes a claim to UCFS, an automated alert will go to the heritage benefits processing centre if the Customer has an open claim for ESA, JSA or IS. The case will be reviewed and form MGP1 will be forwarded to the UC Service Centre to inform them of the closure date of the last claim.  The form includes details of the ESA WCA decision.

2. Further to the previous enquiry, Customers are being asked to provide fit notes where they have passed the WCA. 

Fit notes are not required after a WCA decision has been made. Only where the claimant’s condition has worsened or a new condition has been reported do DWP need another fit note’.

 

Rosie W
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This appears to be yet another example of the DWP expecting claimants and advisers to find ways of working round the barriers they have created within UC which particularly affect claimants with illnesses and disabilities.
We have a UC claim on the go for a claimant for whom the local authority act as Deputy who has been in the support group on ESA.

The Deputy (who is also the appointee) has posted numerous entries on the Journal to this effect, including a full statement of the law and guidance showing that his LCW/LCWRA status goes with him into the UC award. A DEA at the Jobcentre has assured us he will be awarded the LCW/LCWRA component from the start of the claim and that the case manager is aware of this.

There is still a “to do” saying “report a new fit note”.

We are approaching this at the moment from the view that the DWP are discriminating against people with disabilities by this type of requirement which arises purely out of their own failure to provide a workable system and that is therefore for the DWP to make adjustments, not for us to run round like headless chickens trying to their system work for our clients.

We can stick at this for a time because this is a client who moved out of area and we don’t get FSUC till November/December. So far this one claim has taken about 10 hours of my time and that of the Deputyship team manager. We cannot sustain this sort of involvement once full service hits and especially not once managed migration starts.

Do we need to start advising legal action re disability discrimination? Will this change anything? I’ve been an adviser for more than 30 years and I’m running out of ideas - and the will to continue doing this job.

Andyp5 Citizens Advice Bridport & District
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Rosie W - 17 August 2018 01:05 PM

This appears to be yet another example of the DWP expecting claimants and advisers to find ways of working round the barriers they have created within UC which particularly affect claimants with illnesses and disabilities.
We have a UC claim on the go for a claimant for whom the local authority act as Deputy who has been in the support group on ESA.

The Deputy (who is also the appointee) has posted numerous entries on the Journal to this effect, including a full statement of the law and guidance showing that his LCW/LCWRA status goes with him into the UC award. A DEA at the Jobcentre has assured us he will be awarded the LCW/LCWRA component from the start of the claim and that the case manager is aware of this.

There is still a “to do” saying “report a new fit note”.

We are approaching this at the moment from the view that the DWP are discriminating against people with disabilities by this type of requirement which arises purely out of their own failure to provide a workable system and that is therefore for the DWP to make adjustments, not for us to run round like headless chickens trying to their system work for our clients.

We can stick at this for a time because this is a client who moved out of area and we don’t get FSUC till November/December. So far this one claim has taken about 10 hours of my time and that of the Deputyship team manager. We cannot sustain this sort of involvement once full service hits and especially not once managed migration starts.

Do we need to start advising legal action re disability discrimination? Will this change anything? I’ve been an adviser for more than 30 years and I’m running out of ideas - and the will to continue doing this job.

Don’t give up just yet! Stick in there! UC means your needed more than ever!

I’m amazed anyone found the motivation to comment on the above, i honestly couldn’t be bothered!

Oh gawd now i’m going to have make a comment!

Will write to our MP though and ask if he would run the above past the SOS. 

The first part of the extract below sums it up, they agree there is no legislative basis but…......., and the rest appears to be related to administrative convenience. 

‘There is no legislation governing the request for fit notes when moving from ESA to UC or following the end date of the prognosis’.

Peter Turville
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Rosie - after nearly 40 years working in benefits sysyem I sympathise. UC really does make one want to give up the will to live (or at least work)! Its the daily grind of DWP maladministration and incompitence in a process that is designed to make it as difficult as possible to resolve anything.

I hope you have all made submissions to the SSAC consultation https://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/13023/ (which closes on Monday). Even just submitting this as a case study of why DWP / UC is not ready for ‘managed migration’ yet!

I know - many will say we can submit evidence until we are ‘blue (other politically correct colours are available) in the face’ and DWP still won’t listen. Hopefully this is one of the many issues GMWRAG will ‘secure’ Neil Couling with!? https://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/13245/

Daphne
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And on 17th October - 2 days before GMWRAG - Neil Couling is holding a meeting with stakeholders about the managed migration to which I am going on behalf of NAWRA. Attached is info about the purpose of the meeting - I welcome any comments to input at that meeting - feel free to email/direct message me - I’ll be bringing it up at the NAWRA conference in Glasgow next month too.

File Attachments

Andrew Dutton
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Consult with social care providers, Mr Couling, and do it now. You may get the idea that there are many more people than you’d care to think who can’t ‘initiate their new claim to Universal Credit’ or maintain an online claim, and there is a gaping hole in your plans. Thank You.

Rosie W
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Andrew Dutton - 17 August 2018 03:59 PM

Consult with social care providers, Mr Couling, and do it now. You may get the idea that there are many more people than you’d care to think who can’t ‘initiate their new claim to Universal Credit’ or maintain an online claim, and there is a gaping hole in your plans. Thank You.

Seconded

Jon (CANY)
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Andyp5 Citizens Advice Bridport & District - 17 August 2018 11:08 AM

.. Where a Customer makes a claim to UCFS, an automated alert will go to the heritage benefits processing centre if the Customer has an open claim for ESA, JSA or IS.

I see that “heritage” is now replacing “legacy” in DWP terminology. I’m looking forward to eventually hearing of “heirloom” Income Support claims, bespoke handcrafted marvels from yesteryear…

(edit, sorry, it’s Friday afternoon)

[ Edited: 17 Aug 2018 at 05:21 pm by Jon (CANY) ]
Andyp5 Citizens Advice Bridport & District
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Peter Turville - 17 August 2018 02:08 PM

Rosie - after nearly 40 years working in benefits sysyem I sympathise. UC really does make one want to give up the will to live (or at least work)! Its the daily grind of DWP maladministration and incompitence in a process that is designed to make it as difficult as possible to resolve anything.

I hope you have all made submissions to the SSAC consultation https://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/13023/ (which closes on Monday). Even just submitting this as a case study of why DWP / UC is not ready for ‘managed migration’ yet!

I know - many will say we can submit evidence until we are ‘blue (other politically correct colours are available) in the face’ and DWP still won’t listen. Hopefully this is one of the many issues GMWRAG will ‘secure’ Neil Couling with!? https://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/13245/

Rosie - after nearly 40 years working in benefits sysyem I sympathise. UC really does make one want to give up the will to live (or at least work)! Its the daily grind of DWP maladministration and incompitence in a process that is designed to make it as difficult as possible to resolve anything.

Me too,  it is really gruelling!

 

Pete at CAB
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Rosie W - 17 August 2018 04:07 PM
Andrew Dutton - 17 August 2018 03:59 PM

Consult with social care providers, Mr Couling, and do it now. You may get the idea that there are many more people than you’d care to think who can’t ‘initiate their new claim to Universal Credit’ or maintain an online claim, and there is a gaping hole in your plans. Thank You.

Seconded

definitely seconded!!