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UC for prisoners

SamW
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Lambeth Every Pound Counts

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Hi all - quick query.

Client was arrested and was being held in prison on remand. She has now been moved to hospital under s.48 MHA whilst she awaits trial.

Her ESA stopped when she went into prison. Now she is in hospital does she count as a patient or a prisoner? CPAG suggests that she only counts as a prisoner if she is there under s45A/47 (i.e. following conviction/sentence). So it looks to me like she should be counted as a patient and could claim UC. Have I missed anything?

sbrown7
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Rutherglen CAB

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Your client is still classed as a prisoner.

•The Mental Health Act is the law which mental health professionals use section 48 to bring you to hospital for treatment. This is also known as being ‘sectioned’.
•You must need treatment in hospital in the interests of your own health or safety or to protect other people.
•The prison can ask the Ministry of Justice to transfer you to hospital using this section if you are on remand and your mental illness cannot be managed in prison.
•The hospital can you move back to prison if your mental health gets better.
•You can appeal to the Hospital Managers and the Mental Health Review Tribunal (MHRT) if you do not agree with being on this section.
•The hospital can treat you without your permission for up to 3 months.
•When you are discharged, you can get free aftercare services under section 117 of the Mental Health Act


Why were you thinking of claiming UC?  This was not very clear.

SamW
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Hmm, I decided to not be lazy and check the regs myself and I have to say I disagree tbh.

For ESA see DMG Chapter 54/ 54212. The UC regulations (Reg 19 (4)(a)) are explicit that only prisoners in hospital under sections 45 and 47 are excluded from entitlement.

Claiming UC is more a theoretical thing at the moment. Client will likely be returned to prison once her health stabilises and then would not be entitled again. Her HB is in payment at the moment and will be able to continue whilst she is on remand. But she has left me a voicemail from hospital saying she wants me to get her ESA/PIP back in payment so when I call her back to tell her this is not going to be possible for the moment I need to be able to advise on the option to claim UC in theory before explaining why it may be a bad idea in practice.

Thanks for replying though : )

Dave Coughlan
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Benefits adviser - Springfield Psychiatric Hospital, London

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Hi, we deal with a number of inpatients under Section 48 and although we have not assisted with UC claims for any yet, we have made vast numbers of claims for ESA.

The first few we made were refused on the basis the claimants were considered prisoners rather than inpatients but these were successfully challenged and overturned.

I can’t see anything in the UC regs precluding those on S48 from claiming, and as far as I am aware, it is only those under S45a and 47, who are still treated as prisoners and would not be entitled

SamW
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Dave Coughlan - 19 January 2018 03:07 PM

Hi, we deal with a number of inpatients under Section 48 and although we have not assisted with UC claims for any yet, we have made vast numbers of claims for ESA.

The first few we made were refused on the basis the claimants were considered prisoners rather than inpatients but these were successfully challenged and overturned.

I can’t see anything in the UC regs precluding those on S48 from claiming, and as far as I am aware, it is only those under S45a and 47, who are still treated as prisoners and would not be entitled

Perfect - thanks so much Dave! The legislation for UC actually looks clearer than the ESA legislation so hopefully things might improve re you having to challenge refusals.

Holly1989
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Social Welfare Law Unit Citizens Advice Sefton

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Dave Coughlan - 19 January 2018 03:07 PM

Hi, we deal with a number of inpatients under Section 48 and although we have not assisted with UC claims for any yet, we have made vast numbers of claims for ESA.

The first few we made were refused on the basis the claimants were considered prisoners rather than inpatients but these were successfully challenged and overturned.

I can’t see anything in the UC regs precluding those on S48 from claiming, and as far as I am aware, it is only those under S45a and 47, who are still treated as prisoners and would not be entitled

What about a patient on a Section 35 for New Style ESA?

Dave Coughlan
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Benefits adviser - Springfield Psychiatric Hospital, London

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Hi, Section 35 covers a remand to hospital, either by Crown or Magistrates court, for a psychiatric report and he/she does not count as a prisoner and is therefore entitled to claim ESA/UC.