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Forum Home  →  Discussion  →  Housing costs  →  Thread

hb claim in a full service area

stevenmcavoy
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grateful for any thoughts. im only starting to see uc cases in live areas due to a recent roll out in an area i cover more often so im still getting to grips with it.

client currently on esa and hb in a gateway area.  moving into a full service area in a few weeks.  has pip and will have sdp entitlement…..the reason i say will have is they have currently been missing it and i am getting them to do the is10 pre move.

client is moving into what it appears might be supported accommodation. i think i am right in saying this could mean they could make a hb claim and stay on ESA?

i understand that for it to be classed as supported accommodation the support needs to be provided by or on behalf of the landlord as part of the tenancy.  there is a high service charge but the tenancy agreement is a bit ambiguous.  it labels a cost as “scheme staff support service”  and then all the other ones separate such as cleaning the common areas etc.

anyone with particular experience in practice of working out if a tenancy is supported accommodation or not?

HB Anorak
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There are four kinds of “specified accommodation” which continue to attract HB in full service UC areas:

1. “Exempt accommodation” where the landlord is a non-profit body and also provides care, support or supervision
2. Non-profit landlord does not provide care, support or supervision but someone else does and the claimant was “admitted” to the accommodation because they need that care, support or supervision.  This would include supported living, which I guess includes many of your LD client group.  Also covers “managed” accommodation, where the landlord engages a managing agent who has a support contract with the local authority
3. Domestic violence refuge provided by non-profit landlord or local authority
4. Hostel run by local authority

Any of those will keep the client on HB and preserve the ESA award.

stevenmcavoy
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HB Anorak - 16 October 2017 04:17 PM

There are four kinds of “specified accommodation” which continue to attract HB in full service UC areas:

1. “Exempt accommodation” where the landlord is a non-profit body and also provides care, support or supervision
2. Non-profit landlord does not provide care, support or supervision but someone else does and the claimant was “admitted” to the accommodation because they need that care, support or supervision.  This would include supported living, which I guess includes many of your LD client group.  Also covers “managed” accommodation, where the landlord engages a managing agent who has a support contract with the local authority
3. Domestic violence refuge provided by non-profit landlord or local authority
4. Hostel run by local authority

Any of those will keep the client on HB and preserve the ESA award.

social landlord and providing themselves so looks like it could be 1.  it just isnt clear from the tenancy what this staff charge is actually for.  is a warden even enough to make hb possible?

HB Anorak
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Just a warden would be borderline.  The problem they will have is that if they are including this charge in the HB eligible rent it cannot be “support” for the purpose of service charge deductions - if it was, HB wouldn’t pay it.  But at the same time if it is being relied on to bring the claimant within the exempt accommodation fold, then it has to be regarded as support for this purpose.  So support and not support at the same time.  It is often argued that intensive/additional/enhanced housing management can occupy this charmed space - it’s a horribly vague area and no-one has the definitive answer.  It would be a lot better if you could point to additional support provided by a third party - is that not the case?

stevenmcavoy
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HB Anorak - 16 October 2017 04:48 PM

Just a warden would be borderline.  The problem they will have is that if they are including this charge in the HB eligible rent it cannot be “support” for the purpose of service charge deductions - if it was, HB wouldn’t pay it.  But at the same time if it is being relied on to bring the claimant within the exempt accommodation fold, then it has to be regarded as support for this purpose.  So support and not support at the same time.  It is often argued that intensive/additional/enhanced housing management can occupy this charmed space - it’s a horribly vague area and no-one has the definitive answer.  It would be a lot better if you could point to additional support provided by a third party - is that not the case?

ive only seen the tenancy agreement.  it might well be the case that some of the things provided are done by a third party but the charge is clearly listed as a service charge.  the rent and then these charges are listed separately.

some of them are things like heating and then the usual stuff you would get in a flat like communal cleaning, lift maintenance etc.  then there is this staff charge (rather high) but it doesnt actually say what its for in any more detail than that.

stevenmcavoy
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this was accepted as exempt accommodation by the local authority.

client has kept their legacy claim open and so retained their sdp.

cheers for the help.

Carlo
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I don’t suppose you happen to have a copy of the Service Charges do you?

stevenmcavoy
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Carlo - 24 January 2018 09:54 AM

I don’t suppose you happen to have a copy of the Service Charges do you?

i dont but they were pretty much as i described on the thread.  it was all a bit vague.