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DLA evidence in PIP claims

BC Welfare Rights
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The Brunswick Centre, Kirklees & Calderdale

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GD v SSWP, summarised here https://www.rightsnet.org.uk/welfare-rights/caselaw/item/circumstances-that-may-require-a-tribunal-to-seek-evidence-relating-to-a-pr , quotes the SSWP as saying that:

“a. PIP Reassessment Claimants are asked at outset if they want the DWP to include their DLA medical evidence when considering the PIP claim.”

Where and when are they asked? I’ve not seen it on the PIP 2 or remember them ever asking this in the initial phone call. I’ve only rarely seen DLA evidence in appeal papers too.

Benny Fitzpatrick
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Welfare Rights Officer, Southway Housing Trust, Manchester

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That statement mystified me too, Billy. I have never noticed claimants being asked whether they want DWP to consider their previous DLA award either, neither on the PIP2 or on phoning to make the initial claim.

Perhaps DWP would care to clarify when exactly claimants are asked this?

Welfare Rights Adviser
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Social inclusion unit - Swansea Council

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Bonnie
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BABL. Bridgend Citizens Advice

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Glad I’m not the only one that couldn’t figure out when this was asked.
I may include a standard statement in the PIP2 additional information to state that DLA evidence should be used.

Gail Knight
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No never had any claimant being asked this specifically and when we represent at appeals and ask prior for the information to be included sometimes a judge will direct it sometimes not and presenting officers always ask the tribunal to discard it as different benefit.

Also my experience is that a PIP 1 is completed over the telephone I have never actually seen a customer be sent one,( so is the question even being asked) also a PIP1 never forms part of the appeal bundle papers if a claim goes that far.

Very interesting indeed shame its only coming to light now when a high % of claimants have already gone through the process

[ Edited: 6 Nov 2017 at 02:26 pm by Gail Knight ]
Benny Fitzpatrick
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Welfare Rights Officer, Southway Housing Trust, Manchester

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I have been through a number of PIP1 phonecalls on behalf of clients. This question has NEVER been asked on any of those occasions. In addition, I am losing count of PIP appeal submissions which refuse to consider evidence from the previous DLA claim on the basis that it is a “different benefit”.

I suspect that, yet again, the DWP are not being totally honest either with HMCTS, the WR community, or with claimants. Plus ca change?

Den DANES
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DIAL Lowestoft and Waveney

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Coincidentally I have today been in e mail contact with the DWP re this.
My question was
‘We heard that the claim line are now supposed to ask each claimant if they want their old DLA info used to inform their PIP claim. Is this true’
The reply
‘When a person makes a PIP claim following a reassessment invitation, part of the script the agent uses asks if they would like their DLA evidence used in support of their PIP claim. This question is also found in the PIP1 paper application form.’
Link to paper part 1
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/584195/pip1-claim-form.pdf

Benny Fitzpatrick
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I recognise the wording…....up to the end of part (a) of the question. Would be willing to put money on advisers just ticking “no” at part (b), after all, how would the claimant ever know?

SamW
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We usually ask clients or their support workers/family to do the initial claim calls but on the odd occasion I have done so I’ve always been asked this question when they are transferring from DLA. It is definitely on the script if everything is done ‘correctly’.

I think the problem is that it is easy to get off course and get the script loaded for a ‘brand new’ claim. Whether this is due to advisers/claimants selecting not selecting the specific option for people transferring from DLA or the DWP call handlers not loading the correct script (or a mixture of the two) I don’t know.

Having said this, whatever might be asked in the initial claim call, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a PIP decision make any reference to information contained in the DLA file. As reported above attempts to refer to previous DLA awards are met with the stock response that the two are “completely different benefits” (I think the last time I saw this in an MR the client made the quite sensible point that if the two benefits were ‘completely different’ then it made no sense for the negative PIP decision to result in his DLA ending)

Mike Hughes
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Straightforward breach of DWP duty to put all relevant documentation before a tribunal then. I‘m referring to both the PIP 1 itself and the evidence related to the previous DLA claim. This sounds like fun is to be had.