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Forum Home  →  Discussion  →  Work capability issues and ESA  →  Thread

problems claiming new style ESA

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Cordelia
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Welfare rights officer - Wrexham Council Welfare Rights Team

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We have recently started supporting some clients in Flintshire, which is a full service area for UC.  It’s been interesting to say the least.

We are having problems with clients who need to claim new style ESA.  These are typically clients who will not qualify for UC e.g. because of a partner’s earnings.  There seems to be no clear claim pathway for ESA, and clients are being advised by the UC helpline that ESA no longer exists and has been replaced by UC.  The UC helpline has a recorded message with six options, none of which relate to new style ESA.

When we did manage to submit a claim for one client, she had to make three visits to the Jobcentre before they managed to take her documents without trying to redirect her into making a UC claim. 

Are advisers in other full service areas experiencing similar problems, and has anyone found workable solutions?

We are concerned that many clients will miss out on ESA if they do not have a lot of support to navigate the claims process.  Does anyone know if there are any statistics showing take up rates of ESA in full service areas, and comparing them to earlier time periods or non full service areas?

Paul_Treloar_AgeUK
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Information and advice resources - Age UK

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This won’t solve all your problems but it might be useful when they tell you that new-style ESA doesn’t exist.

New style Employment and Support Allowance

Jon (CANY)
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Welfare benefits - Craven CAB, North Yorkshire

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Yes, we’ve seen various problems with this, e.g. JCP staff getting confused about which processing offices should be sent new-style vs old-style claim forms, being told those benefits no longer exist, etc.

Just today we saw a client who had asked for a new-style claim form several months ago (on our advice using the secret option 6 in the call menu). When we queried why a form was never sent, we were told that as she was already on a credits-only claim for many years, she wouldn’t qualify, so no form was sent. Several problems here:

(a) it’s not up to an unaccountable staff member to arbitrarily decide entitlement and withhold a claim form
(b) having made that “decision”, why fail to inform the claimant that you had changed your mind about issuing a form, and supply the reasons?
(c) DWP were in any case wrong in this instance. Had they properly checked the records, they would have seen that the client had in fact gone back to work in the interim, and should qualify afresh on a new set of contributions.

DWP have asked us not to hand out blank ESA1(UC) forms to clients, but faced with situations like the above, it’s difficult to justify complying with that.

New-style JSA switched from “ring us for a claim form” as the only route, to “claim online” as the only route*. I expect ESA will do the same at some point. Each has their drawbacks, I would much prefer that both options remain available.

* there is also the original recommended route of “claim UC and hope someone asks you to fill in a contributory benefit claim form at some point along the way”.

[ Edited: 3 Aug 2017 at 03:29 pm by Jon (CANY) ]
CLaidlaw
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I have myself submitted a ESA1 form on 1st July. I only needed to claim it for 6 weeks, for a condition that turned out to be treatable. (I have kept master copies of both the ESA1 and JSA1 forms in case I get clients who need them, or need to use them again myself.) I took the form to my local job centre in person, since it is only 300 yards from where I live. The first official I spoke to tried to refused to accept the form! When I pointed out that it was no part of her remit to refuse to accept a claim, especially when she was clearly not a decision maker, she took it and gave me back a date stamped photocopy, which has always been my job centre’s procedure when they are given benefit claim forms. I also spoke to a supervisor at the job centre, who told me that they “direct” people to claim universal credit “because the conditions are more stringent”.
I got a text message from the DWP 6 days later to acknowledge they had received the ESA1 form. This is also usual.
What they have not done is actually process the claim. When I phoned up to find out what was going on, the call centre said they had only got the form on 26th July. Coincidentally, this was about the time that I posted my second fit note, with a letter complaining that they had not processed the claim.
My ESA claim ran out 3 days ago (I will not be submitting another fit note, having agreed with my GP that I don’t need another one) and it has still not been processed.
I have no idea so far whether this is a one-off cock up, or whether it is indicative of a general problem with getting ESA claims processed in full service UC areas. (I am based in Oldham.)
I have sent a second complaint letter, claiming compensation for the delay and cost of making phone calls to pursue the claim etc. I have had no acknowledgement of either the first or second complaint letter, and it looks like this is going to head to the parliamentary ombudsman as a case of maladministration.
What I don’t know for sure is whether I still had enough national insurance contributions to get ESA. However,, if the DWP had processed the claim within 14 days, as they told me is the usual time scale, and decided I didn’t qualify, I would have then known to claim UC instead.
I am cynical enough to believe that UC and the benefit system in general is working perfectly well. The Tories will of course never publicly acknowledge it, due to the political repercussions there would be, but their actions in changing the benefits system indicate that their intention from the start was to trash the system and make at as difficult, maddening, tight-fisted and demeaning as possible to claim benefits so that fewer and fewer people will apply for them, thus reducing overall what the government has to pay in benefit claims. This is in accord with their fixation on free market ideology. So far, they are succeeding nicely.

Catblack
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We have come across many issues around this and the only way to resolve them is to contact Stakeholders with individual cases for resolution.

I have only this morning been advised by a service centre that all claims for “new style” ESA (aka conts based) should be made via UC.

When I explained my client was not eligible for UC due to income and that her partner is a pensioner they were flummoxed. She called a manager who read off the same script.

I think they are getting confused as they read the (suitably vague) guidance which only said “all claims of “new style” ESA should be referred to UC on the following number .....”

I think this is for WCA decisions on conts based that need to be used for UC purposes.

Email sent to stakeholders and awaiting outcomes.

slaw
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Macmillan benefits advice team - Oldham CAB

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In Oldham we went full service UC since 26/04/2017.  We have had incredible problems with claiming ‘new-style’ ESA.  Since 26th April ESA1 forms are not accepted and a ESA1(UC) form has to be submitted.  After numerous complaints we have now been told that the ESA1(UC) form should be requested from UC helpline (as previously posted via option 6) and an appointment made with the Jobcentre where the form should be submitted along with 3 (!) forms of ID.  One of our clients had the problem already posted whereby the staff didn’t understand what to do and advised him to come back when he had claimed UC.  We complained and the claim has now been submitted, although the client had to attend another appointment with his form and ID.

The biggest problem with this claiming procedure for us is that some people just cannot attend the Jobcentre for various reasons - eg. too ill to leave home, hospital inpatients.  We are trying to get this message across to UC and have suggested a postal procedure that doesnt involve attending the Jobcentre, although the DWP seem adamant that they want to see ID.  We do not understand the sudden paranoia re. ID.  We have also noticed that UC (including the U ESA1 form) doesnt ask for a NINo.  Does anyone have any further information re. this new policy on verifying ID?

Catblack
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Benefits specialist - South Somerset District Council

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The DWP’s own website is about as clear as mud.

“You’re in a full service area if it has an asterisk (*) on the list of Jobcentre areas. If your area doesn’t have an asterisk, it’s a live service area.
If your area isn’t on the list:
•call the live service number, if you’re single
•claim a different type of ESA, if you live with your partner or family - you can’t claim new style ESA unless your area’s on the list”

https://www.gov.uk/employment-support-allowance/how-to-claim

kd01
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Macmillan Benefits Team, LeicesterShire Citizens Advice Bureau

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We have just tried to contact New Style ESA claim line as our client is not eligible for UC due to husbands earnings from work. We have been told that client needs to claim UC first (despite absolutely no entitlement). Is anyone able to advise whether this is correct?

Jon (CANY)
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kd01 - 14 August 2017 03:22 PM

We have just tried to contact New Style ESA claim line as our client is not eligible for UC due to husbands earnings from work. We have been told that client needs to claim UC first (despite absolutely no entitlement). Is anyone able to advise whether this is correct?

It is certainly not legally correct. Whether in practice you should just go along with it as the easiest way to have your ID verified and your contributory claim registered, I suppose is another question.

Last year when we raised this, it was initially implied that a UC claim was always required. After a bit of back and forth we got the following message from our DWP liaison (I think I’ve quoted this before on a previous thread here):

It has now been confirmed that claims for Contributions only benefits in Full Service areas have been taken out of going through the full online claim process. Claims should be made by phoning the Service Centre on 0345 600 4272. If they experience any issues with this then to contact the local Jobcentre who will assist.

Catblack
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I have received clarification from stakeholders that for all new style ESA claims:

Claimants should phone the UC number (0345 600 4272 for full service, 0345 600 0723 not in full service).

They will then e- mail a UCESA1 form which needs to be completed and then they need to phone UC again to arrange an appointment at the JCP.

At the appointment they would then hand in the completed form plus fit notes for the DWP to process.

So they do not need to apply for UC just phone the number to get the form (presumably this then “registers” their claim date).

Vgriffith
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I have a client in Somerset (full service UC) with a similar problem - he claimed new style ESA through the UC full service helpline as above, but now cannot get the UC helpline to make an appointment with his JC+ - the UC helpline keep referring him to the ESA 0800 055 6688 claim number when he makes the follow up phone call to them to book an appointment.
Of course the ESA 0800 team tell him to claim UC when he rings them, even though he has savings over the capital limit and has explained this to them several times now.
I have emailed the Group Partnership Manager for his area and wait in hope.

Andyp5 Citizens Advice Bridport & District
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Talking of Somerset - :

Somerset Full Service Yeovil and Taunton JCP’s post codes cover bits of our catchment area and we helped our client through the telephony barriers, client emailed CESA form, and an appointment booked, for client who has been signed off sick beyond 28 weeks, still in receipt of contractual sick pay and breathed a sigh of relief! 

Only for our client to attend appointment in Yeovil with Work coach with evidence of being signed off beyond 28 weeks, for her to be told by work coach you can’t get get sick pay and CESA at the same time, come back when your sick pay ends (oh gawd!).

 

 

Andyp5 Citizens Advice Bridport & District
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UC Live / Gateway/keeping service - :

One of our colleagues helps client make a claim for CESA (past 28 weeks sickness period) gets past the initial barriers.

Until the DWP worker, wants to know when period of sickness began, told it is Feb 2017. DWP worker demands to know if that is the date on the SSP1.

When client and colleague explain the employer has not supplied a SSP1, they were told they can’t claim until client is in possession of a SSP1 because…................................

Jon (CANY)
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Catblack - 24 August 2017 11:13 AM

I have received clarification from stakeholders that for all new style ESA claims:

Claimants should phone the UC number (0345 600 4272 for full service, 0345 600 0723 not in full service).

They will then e- mail a UCESA1 form which needs to be completed and then they need to phone UC again to arrange an appointment at the JCP.

At the appointment they would then hand in the completed form plus fit notes for the DWP to process.

So they do not need to apply for UC just phone the number to get the form (presumably this then “registers” their claim date).

This seems to be the normal response, and they will email you as per the attachment. Paper forms don’t seem to be available. I don’t think it’s very satisfactory that you need both an email address and a printer in order to receive a claim form.

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slaw
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Jon (CHDCA) - 22 November 2017 04:32 PM
Catblack - 24 August 2017 11:13 AM

I have received clarification from stakeholders that for all new style ESA claims:

Claimants should phone the UC number (0345 600 4272 for full service, 0345 600 0723 not in full service).

They will then e- mail a UCESA1 form which needs to be completed and then they need to phone UC again to arrange an appointment at the JCP.

At the appointment they would then hand in the completed form plus fit notes for the DWP to process.

So they do not need to apply for UC just phone the number to get the form (presumably this then “registers” their claim date).

This seems to be the normal response, and they will email you as per the attachment. Paper forms don’t seem to be available. I don’t think it’s very satisfactory that you need both an email address and a printer in order to receive a claim form.

In Oldham we now have a lot of experience with new-style ESA.  We print out a blank UCESA1 form for clients, complete this then phone the UC full service helpline (option 6) to arrange an appointment, or home visit, to submit the form, fit note, SSP1, etc and verify ID.

The problem we were encountering at first, as already mentioned in previous posts, is that the helpline staff were unaware that new-style ESA could be claimed on it’s own and they were advising that UC had to be claimed.  This is incorrect and as time went on the staff seemed to all be brought up to speed on this.  Recently this problem has returned, probably because new staff are being taken on as UC roll-out gathers pace and haven’t been trained up regarding new-style ESA.  We have escalated the problem via the Jobcentre managers.

A manager at a UC service centre told me that the problem staff have is that to book an appointment for the Jobcentre, a UC claim reference number normally needs to be entered and not all staff are aware that there is a way to get around this.

In terms of claiming UC to make things easier even though the claimant won’t be entitled - there are surely situations where this is not in the claimants interest.  For example, what if the claimant’s partner is the qualifying age for PC?

 

John-Paul
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This is a bit of a TL;DR affair, so apologies, but bear with me.

We went full service in Angus on 8th November 2017. Today I had my first real encounter with New Style ESA (I’m currently covering a Macmillan Funded WRA post). Initial situation:

31/10/17 - Visited client, completed paper ESA1 for Conts ESA under special rules. Posted ESA1 with DS1500 the same day recorded delivery

08/12/17
PHONE CALL No 1 (15 mins)
After numerous phone calls to chase up, I chanced my arm whilst on the phone to Escalation about another special rules claim that was about 2 months ongoing. I was told that they were not going to process my client’s claim, she missed the cut off date for ESA (Conts) and we would now have to phone UC helpline to claim “New Style ESA”. I checked the recorded delivery tracking and the form had taken until 21/11/17 to arrive at Wolverhampton.

PHONE CALL No 2 (15 mins)
Called UC Helpline (Belfast Office) and was emailed claim docs (simple PDFs to print out and complete). They absolutely will not send paper forms out. on enquiring re next steps I was somewhat incredulous to be told that the forms would need to be completed and handed in to the nearest JCP during client’s initial interview with a Work Coach. After triple checking I wasn’t undergoing some auditory hallucination this was confirmed as correct. An appointment was arranged for the following week. I asked if i could taken the info on the client’s behalf, seeing as she is special rules. Was told to phone JCP helpline to check with them if this would be OK.

PHONE CALLS No 3&4 (60+ mins)
No3 was on hold for 20 mins before being cut off. No4 eventually spoke to an adviser, who apologetically told me he was unable to access the appointments system as they have no access whatsoever to appointments set up by UC centres. Advised me to call UC helpline back to check.

PHONE CALL No 5 (15 mins)
Spoke to an adviser at UC Grimsby who after telling me she’d have to claim UC and not New Style Conts ESA eventually managed to understand what was going on, before telling me that she couldn’t access appointments made at JCPs and I’d have to phone the local JCP direct. She didn’t have the number, then proceeded to give me the DWP Helpline number (the 0345 one which has now changed to 0800). I helpfully gave her the new phone number.

*** Bear in mind I began this absolute fiasco just after lunch. It’s now dark outside and I still don’t know whether or not my special rules client will have to attend an appointment in a neighbouring city with a work coach***

PHONE CALL No 6 (5 mins)
Called neighbouring authority Welfare Rights who helpfully gave me a useful contact at Dundee JCP.

PHONE CALL No 7 (5 mins)
Spoke to JCP Contact (A Disability Adviser and the first helpful DWP employee I’d spoken to in 2 hours) who couldn’t tell me for certain whether or not it would be OK for me to attend instead with appropriate documentation, but would do her best to speak to the UC team and facilitate this. She’d call me back to confirm same day.

PHONE CALL No 8 (5 mins)
Return call as promised, hadn’t been able to 100% clarify, and indeed noted an email they’d received from on high where the options were the claimant attend interview, or arrange a home visit (one of my colleagues had to arrange a home visit recently, the earliest available being 6 weeks away). The DA would follow up for me and call back on Monday, but suggested I come in anyway, with a DS1500 and all other documentation.

PHONE CALL No 9 (10 mins)
Call to claimant, who thankfully was quite understanding over the whole saga, but understandably upset at the possibility of having to attend an appointment with a work coach.

So, eventually at 4:50pm today, after eight phone calls to attempt to deal with what should be a completely straightforward benefit claim, I am still not 100% sure whether or not I will have to tell a special rules cancer patient to attend an interview with a Work Coach, where she may effectively have to prove that she’s terminally ill.

I’m actually still seething typing this out now, and am struggling to find the words to properly express my disgust at what DWP are putting people in these situations through. What about curative claimants undergoing chemotherapy? Are they going to have to go to these appointments? As they won’t be special rules, will they need to wait 5 weeks?

Any pointers on what I can expect next from other Advisers who’ve been in the same situation?

[ Edited: 8 Dec 2017 at 11:01 pm by John-Paul ]