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Uploading documents to a journal?

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Welfare Rights Adviser - Southwark Law Centre, Peckham

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I’m told that it is/should be possible for a claimant to upload documents to their UC journal - but sitting with a client yesterday I couldn’t see any obvious way of doing this.

Is it possible? If so, how?

We’re full service but I’ve only very recently changed jobs to work in Southwark and because of the area and specific client group I worked with up to this point, I dealt with very little UC, so I’m facing a bit of a steep learning curve…...

Martin Williams
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I might be wrong but as far as I know you just can’t do this.

Even rightsnet let’s us add an attachment! ;-)

MaggieB
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So much for “digital by default” eh?

Jon (CANY)
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I recall hearing or reading that uploading docs to the journal was a future goal, but I can’t find that it’s actually available to claimants. Digging around, there are vague mentions like in this local government document about “Assisted Digital Support” for UC claimants, which says that the help offered for “activities on the UC website” will include “Upload documents, including curriculum vitae (CVs), medical certificates, and Jobsearch evidence”. That might just be conflating the UC site with Universal Jobmatch though.

Glenys
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I understood that a document can be uploaded to journal if claimant asks work coach to provide a “To Do” on their To Do List requesting this. I’d heard this was to keep control over what is added to the account.
However a FOI response from March this year (695) - (https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/390786/response/953455/attach/3/695 Response.pdf?cookie_passthrough=1) - said it wasn’t possible (then) to provide childcare costs evidence in this way.

Unfortunately I can’t remember where we heard that people needed to request a To Do” came from- but pretty sure it was from someone working directly with Digital UC claimants.

Anyone heard any more about this, or anything different?

Jon (CANY)
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In the minutes from a recent CRG meeting, in reply to a question to DWP about making MR requests on the journal:

There is no word limit in the journal and up to five documents, up to 10mb each can be stored there.

Unfortunately they don’t specify whether it is only JCP staff who have permissions to upload docs.

Glenys
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Jon (CHDCA) - 26 July 2017 06:34 PM

In the minutes from a recent CRG meeting, in reply to a question to DWP about making MR requests on the journal:

There is no word limit in the journal and up to five documents, up to 10mb each can be stored there.

Unfortunately they don’t specify whether it is only JCP staff who have permissions to upload docs.

Was there any info about what happens if the 5 documents are exceeded? Would they still be accessible? I understand (fro another FOI) that even after a UC award is closed, data can be obtained by a request under a Data Protection request for up to 14 months, so one would hope that what would happen would be that the older documents would “drop off” and be archived somewhere and a new one could be added?
Otherwise how are people going to be able to add a number of documents eg childcare costs proof every month???

Alice SF
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I spend quite a bit of time with clients on their UC accounts and can’t see any way of uploading documents.  I have just had to make a note on the journal that an MR has been requested and call DWP and basically read out my MR request making sure that they type it up ad verbatim including any reference to caselaw or regulations.  I have then had to get my client to request an appointment at the job centre so they can take their documents down to be scanned and sent across.

ClairemHodgson
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which all rather defeats the supposed object of putting it all online.

fairly fundamental, being able to scan in and upload such stuff (assuming, of course, you have the tech, which costs money ... and so on.  )

Mike Hughes
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Jon (CHDCA) - 26 July 2017 06:34 PM

In the minutes from a recent CRG meeting, in reply to a question to DWP about making MR requests on the journal:

There is no word limit in the journal and up to five documents, up to 10mb each can be stored there.

Unfortunately they don’t specify whether it is only JCP staff who have permissions to upload docs.

That kind of shows the madness currently in place. 10Mb would take a lot of Word documents. 1Mb is 63 pages of Word document on average. That being the case, why on earth make life difficult by restricting it to 5 documents.

ClairemHodgson
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Mike Hughes - 27 July 2017 10:26 AM

That kind of shows the madness currently in place. 10Mb would take a lot of Word documents. 1Mb is 63 pages of Word document on average. That being the case, why on earth make life difficult by restricting it to 5 documents.

court is just as bad; their email attachment policy says max attachment 10 mb; but in fact they will only accept a maximum of 10 pages (that’s because they don’t want to spend their own money on paper to print stuff out…)

Mike Hughes
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ClairemHodgson - 27 July 2017 10:59 AM
Mike Hughes - 27 July 2017 10:26 AM

That kind of shows the madness currently in place. 10Mb would take a lot of Word documents. 1Mb is 63 pages of Word document on average. That being the case, why on earth make life difficult by restricting it to 5 documents.

court is just as bad; their email attachment policy says max attachment 10 mb; but in fact they will only accept a maximum of 10 pages (that’s because they don’t want to spend their own money on paper to print stuff out…)

Nail meet head.

Jon (CANY)
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mycatismo - 27 July 2017 09:15 AM
Jon (CHDCA) - 26 July 2017 06:34 PM

In the minutes from a recent CRG meeting, in reply to a question to DWP about making MR requests on the journal:

There is no word limit in the journal and up to five documents, up to 10mb each can be stored there.

Unfortunately they don’t specify whether it is only JCP staff who have permissions to upload docs.

Was there any info about what happens if the 5 documents are exceeded? Would they still be accessible? I understand (fro another FOI) that even after a UC award is closed, data can be obtained by a request under a Data Protection request for up to 14 months, so one would hope that what would happen would be that the older documents would “drop off” and be archived somewhere and a new one could be added?
Otherwise how are people going to be able to add a number of documents eg childcare costs proof every month???

Nothing further was explained, I’ll post back if I get anything more. Evidencing childcare costs is particularly worrying, as a claimant likely has no control over how close to the end of the assessment period they can obtain the evidence.

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Thanks all.

DWP appear to be able to upload copies of decisions to a journal when requested (i.e. by us, because client did not receive them) but I’m currently resorting to copying and pasting the MR request into the journal and stating that a copy has also gone in by post…..will see what happens.

Jon (CANY)
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Mike Hughes - 27 July 2017 10:26 AM
Jon (CHDCA) - 26 July 2017 06:34 PM

In the minutes from a recent CRG meeting, in reply to a question to DWP about making MR requests on the journal:

There is no word limit in the journal and up to five documents, up to 10mb each can be stored there.

Unfortunately they don’t specify whether it is only JCP staff who have permissions to upload docs.

That kind of shows the madness currently in place. 10Mb would take a lot of Word documents. 1Mb is 63 pages of Word document on average. That being the case, why on earth make life difficult by restricting it to 5 documents.

Some interfaces (including the current CAB case recording platform) allow users to upload up to a certain number of documents at a time, but you can keep going back in to add another batch. I was quoting from DWP minutes of a meeting rather than anything more official, perhaps that is what they really meant??

Stuart
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Written Commons answer reports work is ‘ongoing’ to enhance document upload facility -

The Universal Credit Programme has already implemented mechanisms for uploading documents electronically to the Full Service online system, such as CVs. Work is ongoing to allow other documents to be uploaded, whilst ensuring that the security and data protection responsibilities are adhered to. We are building improvements to the UC system all the time, in an agile way, safely and securely, to minimise any disruption to claimants. We expect enhancements to the upload facility to be available in 2017.

http://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/written-questions-answers-statements/written-question/Commons/2017-09-04/7491/

MaggieB
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According to our partnership manager last week claimants will be able to upload med certs, childcare receipts or anything else they wanted to. Everyone was somewhat sceptical based on their experiences and he has promised to follow up and get back to us. No details on what happens when 5 document limit reached

At a JCP meeting a few days previous I was told that if client took med cert to JCP they would still have to post to Service Centre during early stages of claim! (although could send electonically after first appt.)