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Forum Home  →  Discussion  →  Universal credit migration  →  Thread

ESA to UC moving internally in a borough

Pat O Banton
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Hi,

Not too sure if I have missed something, but as far as I recall there was no need to move from ESA(CB)/HB to UC where a move happens within a borough.

I have a client who was resettled from homeless accommodation to permanent accommodation. His claim, while he was in homeless accommodation was ESA (CB) and HB.

He has moved to permanent accommodation in the same local authority. Staff at the homeless unit put in a change of circs for HB, however it appears that UC have got in contact with the local council to say that the claimant should be on UC and have his rent paid through them.

Any ideas or updates would be very useful.

Elliot Kent
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The golden rule is that you can’t make a new claim for HB. In this case, there is no new claim for HB - it is just a change within an ongoing award. So there is no issue with the HB award continuing.

Pat O Banton
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Elliot Kent - 06 May 2022 12:34 PM

The golden rule is that you can’t make a new claim for HB. In this case, there is no new claim for HB - it is just a change within an ongoing award. So there is no issue with the HB award continuing.

That’s what I thought and I have no idea why UC have gotten themselves involved in the matter.

Thanks very much for this

Martin Williams
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I think Elliot is completely right to say there is no new claim to HB needed and so nothing changes even if it is new style cESA (and only reason claim for HB could be made in first place was that it was exempt accommodation).

However, assuming claimant has LCWRA and is in support group for cESA and has no other income better off claiming UC (which would end HB) -

UC amount excluding housing costs = £689.19

cESA amount/month (personal allowance + support component) = £509.60.

That is assuming that the cESA award is either a new style cESA award or it is an old style cESA award and there is no possibility of him/her getting PIP and hence an SDP.

If it is an old style cESA award and can get SDP then don’t claim UC- instead ask for cESA to be revised/superseded to include EDP and SDP (at which point better off that way).

Of course might be one of the many claimants who simply does not want to claim UC despite it being more cash.

Pat O Banton
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Hi Martin, cheers for that. It’s an NSESA claim, that is closing soon as he didn’t make the support group. So with all the rigmarole of moving he’s waiting to get the claim set up and in payment then will claim UC when his 12 months on NSESA is up.

The client is coming from homeless accommodation, hence he was in exempt accommodation and a fresh claim for HB was made when he initially moved in there. The LA are still saying that he has to claim UC, but giving no clear indication why he needs to do this.

MartinB
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I hope you don’t mind me piggy backing this discussion!

In circumstances similar to this where a person is on legacy benefits and in specified accommodation -  if a claimant had to migrate (or chooses to migrate) to UC, would they get the 2 week HB run-on payment?  I think that they should (although I don’t think I’ve seen this happen in practice) and given that some homeless accommodation is several hundred per week, this could be a good sum of money to get all the things needed for the new accommodation?

Does anyone have any experience of people in homeless accommodation receiving this run-on payment?  For example if they have to migrate because they are moving to a different borough, or if they choose to migrate in the same borough? Or are incorrectly advised to migrate?

Elliot Kent
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There would be no transitional housing payment in these circumstances.

Where an award of HB is terminated due to reg 8 UC (TP) Regs, then the effect of reg 8(2A) is to push the end date of the HB award back by two weeks so they remain entitled to HB for that period.

A HB award to someone in temporary or supported accommodation isn’t affected by reg 8 (as per reg 8(3)), so pushing the date back by two weeks doesn’t make any difference.

If the claimant claims UC and then moves out of the temporary or supported accommodation within that two week period, they still wouldn’t get the transitional housing payment because their HB wouldn’t be ending as a result of reg 8.

MartinB
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Thanks Elliot

This is what I thought, but I’ve recently been advised differently so I’m trying to figure out who is correct - I also see this is the guidance (para 39):

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/690867/a2-2018.pdf

Transition to UC Housing Payment not paid
38.If the claimant is already in receipt of UC but is receiving HB because they are
living in specified or temporary accommodation, the Transition to UC Housing
Payment cannot be paid.
39. However, if the claimant is living in specified or temporary accommodation and in
receipt of legacy benefits including HB, if they migrate to UC and their new
address is not specified or temporary accommodation and their entitlement to HB
ends, a Transition to UC Housing Payment can be paid.

I’ve been struggling to make sense of it all!

 

Va1der
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If the old address is temporary accommodation, it’s the order of events that matters isn’t it?

F.ex: they move first (and remain entitled to HB) then claim UC = transitional HB.

EDIT: Would they have to remain on HB for at least 1 benefit week in the new property for this to apply?

MartinB
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The scenario I have is a person in TA on legacy benefits (ESA and HB) who are moving to a different borough and so have to claim UC.  We initially advised that there would be no HB run-on.  We then saw the guidance so were confused!  Struggling to work out which is correct and have seen conflicting information about whether this person will continue to get the HB from the TA for 2 weeks after moving.

HB Anorak
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Can’t see how they would get the 2w HB payment.  The run-on is built into the effective date of the termination of HB under Reg 8(2A).  If HB isn’t going to terminate under Reg 8 at all (which it won’t because para (3) says so) the effective date provided for by para (2A) isn’t engaged.

Instead, HB ends naturally as a result of a change of circs - moving out of the dwelling and out of the area.

Sorry just realised this is exactly what Elliot said - so, what he said!

MartinB
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Thanks, HB Anorak,

So I guess the guidance must be wrong then?  Or, I wonder if para 3 of reg 8 is just saying that if a legacy benefit claimant is getting HB for temporary or specified accommodation, their HB does not end if they claim UC?  This isn’t the case in a scenario where a claimant is leaving TA because they are moving to new accommodation?  Because they are no longer getting HB for TA, because they have moved?

I seem to be going round in circles - perhaps I’m over thinking it…