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Commons statement from David Gauke

Rosie W
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Just been listening to this which repeats the Budget measures announced yesterday and adds more -

- Full service roll out is rolled back. In our area we won’t go full service until November and December. the new schedule has been published
- The “prototype” service will be closed to new claims - I assume this means live service bites the dust. He didn’t say when this would happen
- the 2 week HB run on will start in April next year and will be non recoverable
- private tenants making new claims in full service areas will be informed about (possibly offered, I didn’t quite get the full thing) APAs at the point of claim

There was more but those were the ones I picked out. The statement should be available in Hansard on line later this afternoon.

Apologies if this post crosses with others!

AdviceShop
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Hi Rosie, do you know where I could find the new schedule publication?

Thanks,

GWRS adviser
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SarahJBatty
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The 2 weeks HB run on is really good for minimising rent arrears.  It covers for the 1 week the claimant is ‘losing’ after the assessment period, and the half a week ‘lost’ as a result of converting from 4 weekly to monthly.  This is presumably to satisfy the complaints of landlords.

AdviceShop
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Owen Stevens - 23 November 2017 02:35 PM

I think this is it: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/universal-credit-transition-to-full-service

Thank you

Paul_Treloar_AgeUK
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Full statement and subsequent debate from Gauke available here

Confirms 2-week run-on payments of HB not recoverable and won’t affect amount of UC payment either.

Also this pearl of downright deceit…

Mr Gauke
I do not accept the hon. Gentleman’s characterisation of either universal credit or what I actually said. I make it clear that universal credit provides support for those who need it. On the severe disability premium, which he raised yesterday at Prime Minister’s questions, it is worth bearing in mind there is no reduction in the overall amount of support.

shawn mach
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plus as rosie highlighted above ...

‘To help to ensure a smooth transition to full service, we have also decided to close new claims to our prototype universal credit live service. That will not affect any existing claims.

... and ...

In addition, currently any new UC claim from a family with three or more children will be routed back to tax credits until November 2018. With the extension to the roll-out plan that will now shift to the end of January 2019.’

stevenmcavoy
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Paul_Treloar_AgeUK - 23 November 2017 04:32 PM

there is no reduction in the overall amount of support. </b></i>

my calculations are drastically wrong then.

Gareth Morgan
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shawn - 23 November 2017 04:59 PM

we have also decided to close new claims to our prototype universal credit live service. That will not affect any existing claims.

So new claims in non-full service areas will be back to legacy benefits.  That should impact on the number of transitionally protected cases in future.

Rosie W
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We’ve heard no new claims in live service from January, and also from December. Which could be the same thing if they mean end December/start January but so far it’s not clear.

if anyone finds out the actual date please let us know!

Rehousing Advice.
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I am not sure I get the logic of 80% Housing costs on temps being directly recoverable from DWP. They would surely be better off giving 100% on the basis that LAS will then provide budgeting advice and/or a future APA recommendation, when the client is “ready to move”

That would free up the LAs work more progressively with the clients rather than chase the 20% arrears. It would then dovetail more with the short term accommodation (supported accommodation)  thinking.


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Rosie W - 24 November 2017 09:54 AM

We’ve heard no new claims in live service from January, and also from December. Which could be the same thing if they mean end December/start January but so far it’s not clear.

if anyone finds out the actual date please let us know!

I’ve seen a letter from Neil Couling to Chief Executives and Revenue and Benefits Managers of LAs which says end December -

I have agreed with Ministers that in Live Service areas we will curtail the flow of new universal credit cases from the end of December. Whilst this will not affect any existing claimants already on universal credit it will mean that any new claims will, until UCFS is commenced locally, be made to legacy benefits and tax credits

[ Edited: 24 Nov 2017 at 03:06 pm by Daphne ]
WillH
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Thanks Daphne. They will need to modify the commencement orders again for this, won’t they?

Going back to the temp accommodation issue, I simply don’t understand what is going on here…. Will the housing element be based on the LHA still? What is the support being offered (is it support direct to LAs for what would previously have been a DHP to make up the difference?)

If someone understands this I’d love to know!

Rosie W
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Daphne - 24 November 2017 02:29 PM
Rosie W - 24 November 2017 09:54 AM

We’ve heard no new claims in live service from January, and also from December. Which could be the same thing if they mean end December/start January but so far it’s not clear.

if anyone finds out the actual date please let us know!

I’ve seen a letter from Neil Couling to Chief Executives and Revenue and Benefits Managers of LAs which says end December -

I have agreed with Ministers that in Live Service areas we will curtail the flow of new universal credit cases from the end of December. Whilst this will not affect any existing claimants already on universal credit it will mean that any new claims will, until UCFS is commenced locally, be made to legacy benefits and tax credits

Thanks Daphne. Will this mean we can get people off UC and onto JSA? We will be “not live service any more” from January to November/December.

Andrew Dutton
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New, simpler system…...

HB Anorak
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WillH - 24 November 2017 04:06 PM

Thanks Daphne. They will need to modify the commencement orders again for this, won’t they?

Going back to the temp accommodation issue, I simply don’t understand what is going on here…. Will the housing element be based on the LHA still? What is the support being offered (is it support direct to LAs for what would previously have been a DHP to make up the difference?)

If someone understands this I’d love to know!

My understanding is that UC will not include a housing element at all in a case where the claimant occupies temporary accommodation - it will in effect become a fifth category of specified accommodation.  But before this can be implemented there is work to do around the months in which people move in or out of temp acc, especially cases where a general needs housing element will be lost following a switch to temp acc.  DWP apparently looking at ways to mitigate that, perhaps through DHPs.  It’s a technical headache and is delaying what ought to be a simple cut and paste job, moving temp acc from Schedule 4 to Schedule 1.

WillH
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HB anorak - thank you - this does make sense of the statement. I see that he also talks about this being a temporary measure…like supported acommodation being exempt accommodation I suppose…making it even more of a headache I’d have thought.

Anyway, I am now clearer about what this is getting at…as others have said this means yet more complexity.

shawn mach
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re the HB 2-week run-on .... outgoing DWP Permanent Secretary Robert Devereux was asked about this by the Public Accounts Committee earlier this week, and in particular the scenario where someone’s HB and then UC is paid direct to their landlord ... about it being the landlord who gets the double payment -

Q15. Nigel Mills: On the third of those changes, the extra two weeks’ housing benefit, is there not a risk that possibly some landlords will get that extra money? If the rent is being paid direct to the landlord and the current benefit stays there, how do you stop landlords getting a bonus of two weeks’ rent in that situation?

Sir Robert Devereux: What is going on here is that, essentially, by doing the run-on, the message that comes from the Department to local authorities to say, “Please stop paying housing benefit because we have taken over”, will be issued a fortnight later. In that period, we are effectively providing the claimant with more money than they would otherwise have got, which is part of the reason why this package costs £1.5 billion altogether. The money that is typically paid out of housing benefit would have been paid to the landlord. The additional cash that the claimant will have will be in the claimant’s hands. They are the ones who are paying the rent, typically.

Q16. Nigel Mills: If you have a claimant whose housing benefit is currently paid directly to the landlord, and that continues under Universal Credit—I think that can happen in some situations; there may be a few more going forward—is it not then the landlord who gets that extra money, because you are kind of paying it twice for those two weeks?

Sir Robert Devereux: No. I am trying to work out what circumstances you are talking about. In the event that the pre-existing housing benefit claim is paid directly to the landlord, you are right: the extra fortnight’s money will go straight to the landlord. If their Universal Credit claim is paid to the claimant, as most are, at the end of that first month the claimant will then need to decide how much they are in arrears, or otherwise, and pay the landlord.

You are right that there is a potential issue there, but this money is in the hands of the claimant and they will need to take responsibility for making the right payment.

http://data.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/committeeevidence.svc/evidencedocument/public-accounts-committee/homeless-households/oral/74713.html

Peter Turville
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So what Deveraux could have said is:

‘Yes you are correct. Under the 2 week HB ‘run on’ a claimant will be paid twice for those two weeks. In some cases that double payment will go to the claimant, in other cases to the landlord. It could also be possible in some cases the double payment would, in effect be split 50:50 between landlord and claimant. In each of these situations the claimant and landlord will have to ensure the rent has been paid, and in a case where the landlord has received the double payment whether they will refund the second payment to the tenant

Or have I misunderstood?

SarahJBatty
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I think Mr Gauke is right (on this occasion) and I don’t see it as a double payment. Although the 2 week run on will overlap with the UC assessment period in the sense that both payments are ‘in respect of’ the same period, the tenant, without the 2 week overlap has 2 weeks of rent arrears which are down to the 7 days calculation period for UC and the switch to monthly payment pattern.  You could say the tenant is only a week and a half in arrears because of this, but rent is charged in full weeks on a Monday so they are 2 weeks in arrears through no fault of their own.  So it’s not really a double payment its a transition to new payment pattern.

In my opinion

Peter Turville
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SarahJBatty - 30 November 2017 04:41 PM

I think Mr Gauke is right (on this occasion) and I don’t see it as a double payment. Although the 2 week run on will overlap with the UC assessment period in the sense that both payments are ‘in respect of’ the same period, the tenant, without the 2 week overlap has 2 weeks of rent arrears which are down to the 7 days calculation period for UC and the switch to monthly payment pattern.  You could say the tenant is only a week and a half in arrears because of this, but rent is charged in full weeks on a Monday so they are 2 weeks in arrears through no fault of their own.  So it’s not really a double payment its a transition to new payment pattern.

In my opinion

yes I see where your coming from. perhaps Mr Deveraux should have added ‘but our simplification really isn’t as simple as the simplified explantion I have given. In fact it is so complicated we are looking at way to simplyfy it ‘?

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DWP has provided more details on how the 2 week HB run on will operate - including for those moving on from or into temporary accommodation in minutes from the SSAC December meeting (para 2.5).

Daphne
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And interestingly (worryingly) at para (n) of section 2.5 it indicates that for those who get the HB run-on there will be no need for an advance!!

Would it be possible for a claimant to receive a two week Housing Benefit run-on payment and still get 100 per cent advance of their housing costs?

There would be little incentive for a claimant to apply for an advance of their housing costs when the need for it had been addressed. In practice making an advance in these circumstances would be unlikely.

SarahJBatty
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Yeah as long as your rent is paid you and your children can live on thin air ...