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Do I run with this

PW
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Paddock Wood Community Advice Centre

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Hi,

Just got a client that had local authority health care service assistance in completing their PIP form (conversion from dla to PIP) and got zero points, when I reviewed it wow what a shocker no wonder they got zero points, and these people are supposed to be trained professionals in the area of mental health, the issue is do I run with it to appeal or suggest that this be scrapped and start again afresh. The local authority services have since been withdrawn as they say the client is well enough and no more they can do, she is lost confused and very scared.

Would this approach work against me at a tribunal, my thinking is antagonising the Judge or worse still the case gets adjourned any suggestions please

Mike Hughes
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Senior welfare rights officer - Salford City Council Welfare Rights Service

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Two aspects of it for me every time.

1) Does the client understand the consequences of running with a new claim? If they would rather start again I’d want to know why?

2) Wherever possible I try to persuade them to continue. I see no reason to restart a claim in these circumstances. It’s just a case of a written submission explaining in detail what the claim form ought to have said. That may inconvenience an adviser a little but the only real question is whether there is an entitlement. POs and some tribunal members think there’s no getting round a near blank or rubbish claim form. Provided the sub specifically addresses the matter I’ve not had any great difficulty in turning it round.

[ Edited: 28 Jun 2017 at 04:49 pm by Mike Hughes ]
PW
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thank you just needed the reassurance of someone who has done this and succeeded

stevenmcavoy
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i had a client with a learning disability at appeal who worked full time.  to read the form you would think the client needed 24 hour support.

it turned out he went to an advice agency who put in stock answers of the types of difficulties someone with a pretty profound learning disability might have rather than the fairly capable client.

i acknowledged the form was an exaggeration and explained the client had just signed it (nature of the disability no doubt helped here).

i then explained the ones he could have met despite the fact he was fairly capable in other areas i.e cooking, reading, budgeting and communication.

tribunal didn’t raise any issues.

Mike Hughes
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Colleagues have since reminded me that the original claim pack would become part of the appeal papers anyway thus triggering an inane debate in plenty of tribunals about the difference between the original and the new one with the inference that the influence of a WR adviser on the latter must be a bad thing. It’s a lot quicker to do a submission correcting the duff claim pack and explain who did the original; based on what, and, why it went so badly wrong than it is to do a new claim pack. I have one of these running at present. Original claim pack done by a friend of appointee who is a social worker in another area. Couldn’t even name the health condition properly let alone the consequences. 

Only fair to say I bring a certain amount of prejudice to the table on this as I believe advising a new claim is only justifiable in very limited circumstances and the desire to do so often comes from not being especially client centred.

Mike Hughes
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stevenmcavoy - 28 June 2017 04:53 PM

i had a client with a learning disability at appeal who worked full time.  to read the form you would think the client needed 24 hour support.

it turned out he went to an advice agency who put in stock answers of the types of difficulties someone with a pretty profound learning disability might have rather than the fairly capable client.

i acknowledged the form was an exaggeration and explained the client had just signed it (nature of the disability no doubt helped here).

i then explained the ones he could have met despite the fact he was fairly capable in other areas i.e cooking, reading, budgeting and communication.

tribunal didn’t raise any issues.

Ach. I posted without reading yours. Yes, this. Extra claim packs raise issues. Just fixing it usually doesn’t.

Elliot Kent
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I don’t see understatement on a PIP2 as being a particularly big deal at appellate level - certainly not something that justifies giving the appeal up and starting over for. I think if there is oral evidence and a sensible written sub, the Tribunal will usually focus on those.

Whether to acknowledge the understatement and explain it explicitly is probably something that turns on the particular case. I think if you are going to directly contradict the PIP2, you should address why. If you are just building on its general themes, I’m not sure it would necessarily be helpful to address the difference directly.

For instance, if the client has said they need prompting to prepare food, wash and engage socially, I don’t think you necessarily need to offer much explanation of why you are inviting the Tribunal to also find he might also need prompting to dress.

Moderation is probably helpful here. If you’re inviting the Tribunal to find that your client just about qualifies for standard rate, even though the PIP2 only asks for a couple of points, you’re probably going to have an easier time than if there’s a blank PIP2 and you’re asking for 40-odd points.

I’d certainly rather have an understated PIP2 than an exaggerated one.

That’s my view at least - I expect people have different approaches and local judiciary may vary.