Hi i'm looking for a second opinion of the following:

Client in receipt of PC including severe disability amount. Also receives IB at a reduced rate due to occupational Pension being taken into account. We are looking to maximise income by appling for Carers Allowance to avail of the Carers amount. I am aware that it is possible to have an underlying entitlement to CA which would allow the client to qualify for a the carers amount & Severe disability amount. The problem is with the IB and CA and overlapping rules. At present the amount of IB payable is less than CA entitlement because of the occupational pension deduction. When considering the overlapping benefit rules you generally get which ever benefit is higher. Does this mean which payment is higher or which benefit in general is higher. IB is generally higher than CA but in this client's case it is paid at a lower rate due to the Occ Pen deductions. If the client in this case claims CA, are they likely to get payment of this or could you argue that IB is the higher benefit (although actual payment is lower) and CA should not be paid due to the overlapping benefit rules!

Any thoughts?

As you are talking about the SD premium, I assume this is a single claimat - if so, he can't claim CA can he ...However, if no one claims CA for looking after him, he can ask for the SDP to be added to his PC -

By the way, what is the "severe disability amount" which you say is added to his PC?

Firstly, who is your client caring for to enable him/her to claim CA?

If they're a joint claim couple the only way of getting the carers premium and the severe disability premium is for them both to be getting DLA at the middle or highest rate care comp or AA and for them to claim CA but to be entitled to the underlying entitlement only.

If someone actually gets CA for looking after someone who gets the severe disability premium then that person loses the SDP.

Sorry if this is confusing but i'm not sure how else to put it - if you'd like to give more detail it could help.

Nicky

Sorry folks I was working on limited information in my initial post. The case involves a couple - husband aged 60 and wife aged 57. Both in receipt of MRC and HRM. Both receive IB (wife £71) (husband £31 due to occupational pension being taken into account). They have no non-dependendents living with them. Pension Credit is currently in payment with severe disability additions (the PC equivilent to SDPs). In order for them take advantage of 2 Carers additions on Pension Credit (they are caring for each other)they would both need to make a claim for CA. This is where the problems starts. The wife would be OK as CA will not actualy be paid as her IB is higher and the overlapping benefit rules apply. However as the husband is only in reciept of IB at £31 then he may be entitled to and get paid CA which will effect their Severe Disabilty additions on PC.

What I am trying to find out is whether the IB of £31 is used to determine if the overlapping benefit rules apply or is the the full amount of IB that the client is entitled to but is not being paid due to the deductions being made for the Occ Pension.

Hope this clarifies things

Barry

Things now make much more sense!

However, i'm sorry but i don't know the answer to your query, although i'm sure someone else will.

Good luck

Nicky

you should therefore do the CA for her, which will get you at least one carer's premium - not to be sneezed at - his would be best left alone .......

Hi- i don't think there's any ambiguity on this one. His actual IB award is £31- the reason why isn't relevant. Therefore he'd definitely be awarded a top up of Carer's Allowance, nullifying an SDA.

Can anyone help with my SDA? I've had 100 views, but nobody's biting. I'm prepared to be told to forget it, but a reply would be appreciated.

I dont recognise £71 as an IB amount for the wife?

Unless the non-dep is under 18, blind or on middle or high care your barking up the wrong tree as no SDP will be paid anyways?

If no SDP is paid or due then backdate two carers claims three months, finished.

Ignore the above post apart from the three months backdating, read it wrong.

How do you edit post?????????????

The rate at which IB is “payable” is subject to any reduction of IB caused by receipt of an occupational pension. See sections 30(B)(8) and 30DD Contributions and Benefits Act 1992. Section 30E which concerns deductions for councillors allowance clearly states that only the balance of IB after any deductions is “payable”.

IB is a “personal benefit” under the Overlapping Benefits Regulations, which is defined in Reg 2 as a “any benefit…which…is payable”.

Lee’s correct and, in your case, it’s the £31 p/w IB which is used to reduce CA in Reg 4 of Overlapping Benefits Regs.

Your client could be forgiven for being mightily peeved at the benefits system. Of course, it’s the gross amount of his occupational pension that determines by how much his IB is reduced, rather than the net amount (R(IB 3/05). However, when it comes to the overlapping benefit rules the reverse is true. It’s the amount of IB he’s actually paid that decides by how much CA is reduced, rather than the gross amount of IB.

Nevertheless, there is a solution. He could claim his £15.95 p/w CA (ie the difference between the standard rate of 46.95 and his £31 IB) as backdated benefit. This would generate a backdated additional carers amount in his PC, so that he would be due PC arrears of 10.40 p/w (ie 26.35 additional amount for carer minus his 15.95 CA) multiplied by however many weeks he claims the backdate over (max 3 months). Under para 1(2)(c) of Sch 1 to the State Pension Credit Regs 2002, such an arrangement does not affect his entitlement during the backdated period to the additional amount for a severely disabled person in PC.

CPAG at page 840 of the current edition acknowledges that with careful planning, a claimant may take advantage of the above rule. Furthermore, I’m not convinced a claimant could be done for depriving himself of CA for PC purposes in these circumstances, as he would be applying for CA, just every, say, 3 months.

Barry, you say that you’re aware that underlying CA entitles a claimant to an additional amount for a carer without jeopardising the additional amount for severe disability. Interestingly, there appears no equivalent in the PC Regs to para 14B of Sch 2 to the IS Regs, so I’m assuming the meaning of “entitled to, and in receipt of” Carers Allowance In para 1 Sch 1 PC Regs means, by inference from the identical phrase in IS, paid rather than underlying CA.

Many thanks for above replies. Very helpful information TomH.

Just to add to tom's reply.

As the carer premium continues for 8 weeks after you stop the award, you can wait another three months from then and backdate again for three months to cover that period?

It would then be nearer claiming every 5 months to keep the double SDP safe and allow two carer premiums to be paid.

Bill

Is that what's known in certain quarters as creative accounting ?

It was so much easier when you could backdated Invalid Care Allowance for one full year, as if I'm old enough to easily remember that?

Seems like just yesterday!