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Top Income Support & Jobseeker's Allowance topic #6971

Subject: "arguing client notified of change in circumstances by telephone" First topic | Last topic
stevenm030
                              

welfare rights officer, dundee city council welfare rights
Member since
06th Jun 2008

arguing client notified of change in circumstances by telephone
Wed 06-May-09 12:58 PM

case i have relates to clients daughter moving in and claiming jsa. this resulted in client losing severe disability premium. client argues she told them of daughter claiming this by telephone. there is no record of this call.

This is my first case of this type and am just looking to see if anyone has had similar cases where they have been sucessfull or any good case law etc i can look at.


thanks

  

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Replies to this topic
RE: arguing client notified of change in circumstances by telephone, nevip, 06th May 2009, #1
RE: arguing client notified of change in circumstances by telephone, stevenm030, 07th May 2009, #2
      RE: arguing client notified of change in circumstances by telephone, nevip, 07th May 2009, #3
           RE: arguing client notified of change in circumstances by telephone, stevenm030, 08th May 2009, #4
           RE: arguing client notified of change in circumstances by telephone, stevenm030, 18th May 2009, #5
                RE: arguing client notified of change in circumstances by telephone, shawn, 18th May 2009, #6
                     RE: arguing client notified of change in circumstances by telephone, Steve Johnson, 19th May 2009, #7
                          RE: arguing client notified of change in circumstances by telephone, stevenm030, 21st May 2009, #8

nevip
                              

welfare rights adviser, sefton metropolitan borough council, liverpool.
Member since
22nd Jan 2004

RE: arguing client notified of change in circumstances by telephone
Wed 06-May-09 01:03 PM

Get a copy of the client's phone records for the relevant period. This will show the DWP office phone number called. From there if the client is a credible witness at an appeal tribunal then you have a good chance. Its worked for me in the past.

  

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stevenm030
                              

welfare rights officer, dundee city council welfare rights
Member since
06th Jun 2008

RE: arguing client notified of change in circumstances by telephone
Thu 07-May-09 09:13 AM

i dont think the client will be able to obtain these so i think it may just be relying on the credible witness part.

I just always feel a lot more comfortable with some case law to go on.

  

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nevip
                              

welfare rights adviser, sefton metropolitan borough council, liverpool.
Member since
22nd Jan 2004

RE: arguing client notified of change in circumstances by telephone
Thu 07-May-09 09:59 AM

Then, this is an extract from a sub' I use in such cases.

"Could you please provide us of copies of all Departmental documentation used to record all contact between yourselves and Mr.....

There is no such documentation included in the appeal papers. It is no defence to say that there was no such contact. In CSIS/345/04 (copy enclosed) at paragraph 17 the claimant’s representative argued that “it was necessary for the adjudication officer to lodge details of the administrative arrangements whereby information from claimants was recorded and attached to their case files and later retrieved; secondly, the officer concerned with the claimant’s case should confirm that such instructions had been carried out yet there was no record of the relevant disclosure”.

At paragraph 18 the commissioner states, “I agree with the above comments. However, they specifically relate to a recoverable overpayment based on failure to disclose where the DM bears the burden of proof to establish that there has been no relevant disclosure. It is not enough for a DM to regard it as conclusive that there is no record of the same. It will be necessary for the DM to produce some evidence that the system employed is sufficiently sound such that, if there is no disclosure recorded, it is an appropriate inference that the claimant never in fact disclosed. If no such evidence as to an efficient system is produced, the tribunal is likely to conclude that the claimant’s evidence is to be believed although this is not inevitable. At the end of the day, it is a matter of analysis of all the evidence, having regard to the legal and evidential burdens of proof”."

  

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stevenm030
                              

welfare rights officer, dundee city council welfare rights
Member since
06th Jun 2008

RE: arguing client notified of change in circumstances by telephone
Fri 08-May-09 03:39 PM

thanks that will be very usefull!

  

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stevenm030
                              

welfare rights officer, dundee city council welfare rights
Member since
06th Jun 2008

RE: arguing client notified of change in circumstances by telephone
Mon 18-May-09 02:22 PM

it may just be my lack of searching skills but i have been unable to find the commissioners deciison quoted. you dont have a link or copy you could send handy?

again thanks for the help.

  

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shawn
                              

editorial director, rightsnet
Member since
28th Jul 2005

RE: arguing client notified of change in circumstances by telephone
Mon 18-May-09 02:28 PM

hi -

summary of CSIS/345/2004 in rightsnet briefcase ...

.. and full decison @ http://www.osscsc.gov.uk/aspx/view.aspx?id=1446

cheers - shawn

  

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Steve Johnson
                              

Manager, Walthamstow CAB
Member since
24th Oct 2005

RE: arguing client notified of change in circumstances by telephone
Tue 19-May-09 01:55 PM

CH/4065/2001 is pretty good on believing clients and doubting recording systems of benefit authorities. I also have a list somewhere of other precedent which says its cool to believe claimants, without needing corroboration. Let me know if you want it.

Steve

  

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stevenm030
                              

welfare rights officer, dundee city council welfare rights
Member since
06th Jun 2008

RE: arguing client notified of change in circumstances by telephone
Thu 21-May-09 01:37 PM

that would be great. any info always helps. i will also look up that commisioners decision as well.

  

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Top Income Support & Jobseeker's Allowance topic #6971First topic | Last topic