Here at Brum we have seen a significant number of appeal files lost by the Administrative Support Centre The system seems to have descended into chaos,

This probably stretches throughout the footprint of Birmingham ASC and I'm keen to find out how much of a problem it actually is so if anyone could come up with vague numbers, just off the top of your heads I'd be grateful.

I can think of 5 clients off the top of my head and am confident that if I were to run through case lists there would be more, I just can't remember their names.

Dan,

Thought I'd respond to this as I am pulling my hair out with the same ASC. I'm not aware of any files being lost in their entirety but we are sending in evidence and finding 6-7-8 weeks later it has not been actioned. Also requests for domiciliary hearings, reinstatements and the like made in September 2009 and not actioned.

Hearing delays of course and I rarely get more than 2 weeks notice for a hearing these days whereas I used to get 4-5 weeks.

I am told that this is because they have taken on the work of the Nottingham area but with no extra staff and so there is a large backlog of work. It's a great shame as, in my experience, the TS in Brum was usually very efficient before it was reorganised and now things seem to be gradually getting worse and worse.

Sue

see also the thread about TS delays - we have not had an issue with lost files but increasing problems with evidence not being actioned, faxes sent claimed not received etc. Post hearing action delays(statement of reasons etc) seems to be even worse than before (the only action that was regularly a problem).

The biggest issue at present appears to be delay with registering TAS1's returned. Appelants and reps are being sent the reminder letter even though the TAS1 has been returned but (probably) awaiting linking to the file. When advised TAS1 has been returned ASC are then issuing duplicate TAS1 to appelant to complete (we have even been advised that there is no point in faxing a copy if we have one because it could sit in the same pile of unlinked post!).

We would agree TS Brum was previously generally very good and easy to work with. Possibly moving to the ASC model as well as the Notts work hasn't helped? Its now much more difficult to work directly with a listings clerk who actually deals with the appropriate local venue(s).

To be fair their appears to have been an increase in appeals lodged over and above the increase anticipated due to ESA.

Thank you for your replies.

I am bumping this as I need to canvas for examples of things going wrong.

Having had one too many arguments with clerks who are too poorly trained to understand what is happening and falling to obfuscation as opposed to enlightenment I ran out of patience. In one case in particular events were simply too convenient and I became very suspicious, it wasn't borne out mind but it did appear for a few days, on balance, that I was being lied to. A Judge dealing with it eventually cleared it up and we ran it down to negligence and mismanagement as opposed to impropriety but still...

I've been instructed by a particular client to make moves toward a complaint to the Parliamentary Ombudsman, I have an MP who seems amenable to making the referral and am in the early stages of the complaint procedure. Suffice to say I will not give them the opportunity to filibuster into May... I'm as confident as I can be that this has legs.

I'd be interested to hear of any examples of the current extent of the mismanagement and if anybody wants to raise specific cases then please forward a case ref and details of what went wrong to...

Dan AT btu dot org dot uk.

Dan, no case ref as the appeal did not get to The Tribunals Service (Tax Credits case; decision changed by HMRC in favour of the claimant). This occurred in December 2009.

However, because a member of staff at HMRC initially indicated they wouldn't refer the case to TTS AT ALL, I had cause to contact Glasgow's TTS office. The advice I was initially given was plain wrong.

My enquiry was to find out how best to submit an appeal directly to TTS (i.e. bypassing HMRC) in order that it was put before a Judge to consider a request to issue a Direction to HMRC to furnish a submission / response. The first member of staff unequivocally stated the appeal *must* be referred by HMRC and an appeal could not be made directly to HMRC. Even when I cited, and explained, R(H) 1/07, that member of staff insisted an appeal could not be made directly.

I then (politely) asked to speak to a senior member of staff and got the "They're all busy" etc, complete with "attitude". I stated I would wait and got the "It could be a long time". At one point, I half expected the phone to be put down, given the unhelpful tone of that staff member. Eventually, I was (very reluctantly) put through to a supervisor / senior member of staff.

The supervisor was VERY surprised at the prospect of an appeal bypassing a decision making authority, but agreed it should at least be put before a judge. In fairness, he did then offer his name and suggested marking such correspondence for his personal attention.

Now, that may be all fine and dandy in this case, but how many other callers would have been aware of R(H) 1/07? Most would have been led to believe they were stuck with HMRC's intransigence.

I think I will at somepoint ask our MP, should he concede to have a look at this thread. Or possibly I'll print it unless the management object...

Feel free to air your views.

Mistake in third para of my prev post:

"The first member of staff unequivocally stated the appeal *must* be referred by HMRC and an appeal could not be made directly to HMRC."

The last word should read "TTS".

We have had other problems with Birmingham. One of our clients recently had an appeal at the "Reading Atlantic" venue - a temporary venue taken to try to clear an appalling backlog of cases caused by premises problems. This is a couple of miles from the twon centre. But Birmingham sent him directions for getting to Reading Friar Street, which is in the centre of town. Result: client turned up 40 minutes late and missed his slot.

Tribunal very sympathetic and unhestitatingly adjourned directing hearing ASAP. Outdoor clerk said "this happens all the time". Birmingham said "well he should have checked he'd got directions to right place."

I feel an e-bef coming on.

Ariadne, it's been happening to us too. Not only have they been sending the map for Friar Street rather than Atlantic House, one of our clients was sent a map for a venue in Birmingham!

Other issues:

Confusion about whether or not postponment requests have been agreed. In one recent case the client took an (unpaid) day off work to attend the hearing (we having been told the postponement request had definitely been refused) only to find that she wasn't expected as the hearing had been postponed...

Paperwork not being linked. For example, I sent a sub and medical evidence (together) for one of my clients and was (eventually) copied on the medical evidence but not the sub. Was variously told the sub hadn't been received and might have been received but due to volume of outstanding post they couldn't be sure. Sent and faxed further copies but when we finally attended the hearing the sub hadn't been linked.

We also received a letter from them advising us of a designated fax number for Reading appeals which we could use but when I tried it, it didn't work. I rang to query and was told not to use it for the forseeable future. Hmmm....

And another thing whilst I'm on a rant- severe delays in dealing with correspondence. I wrote off for a SOR in November and am still waiting for a response. I rang to chase up on it (again) yesterday and was told it was only passed to the Judge last week so will be at least another month or so before we receive it.

One of our clients attended a tribunal on 11/12/09. The decision was sent to him by post and he didn't receive it until 5/1/10. We requested SOR on 10/1/10. TTS has (yesterday) written to us- asking why the request was late.....

Not only do we have massive waiting times for dates and are also seeing a decline in the quality of the work coming out of Liverpool TS they are now apparently on strike for two days.

We usually get advance warning with the reasons for the strike but not this time.

Mon 08-Mar-10 11:41 AM by Dan_manville

I bet that statement request got lost and they're not letting on... It's a pretty common pattern.

Either way I'm drafting the second tier complaint today I expect there's about 3 weeks until this goes down south so the offer's still open if people have individual cases they want to raise.

Ironically, without really trying we've come up with 10 cases where mismanagement has played a part and another two where we've got reliable accounts that files have been lost.

We've received confirmation today that the MP we've been speaking to is willing to refer the matter to the ombudsman Barring snap elections, an unlikely defeat in what looks like quite a safe seat or sudden health problems we've got legs.

The door's still open to anyone wishing to pin additional ires to the end of our list.

Not a lost file, but a sign of incompetence.

We received the usual TS notice (from Birmingham ASC) with date and time of our client's appeal hearing. In the same envelope was the Presenting Officer's notice, which included a full 'Session Case List' complete with appellant's names and NI numbers. One of those was recognisable as a former, but not current, client.

Formal complaint on its way to Birmingham.

I'm getting seriously fed up with it. We had a similar thing yesterday- date for a tribunal came in with the map and a print-out relating to a completely different appeal (and not a client of ours). I rang TAS just this morning re a client whose appeal has been listed for 22/3- sent sub on 3/2 but although they've now confirmed they've received it they couldn't say whether or not it would be circulated prior to 22/3. I'm sure tribunals are getting pretty fed up with us/clients turning up on the day with 'additional evidence'- but what else are we to do?

The Judiciary are very fed up with it. We've had meetings with the operations managers, listings managers and Regional Judge all in the same room and even the Regional Judge's protestations fell on deaf ears.

"What else are we to do?"

Having had one hearing adjourned because the 23 pages of submission and further evidence, including medical reports, which had been sent in in advance had not been circulated, I asked TS to supply me with the fax numbers of every venue we use. Now, if I'm not sure that documents have reached the panel, I fax them over to the venue the night before the hearing.

OK if the fax machine is switched on. Not all venues are in regular use. In at least one of the ones I've used it's actually part of the photocopier.

Yes, and there isn't always someone at the venue to collect and distribute faxes. Plus we've been told off previously for faxing/dropping off subs the day before ('we are not a letter box'...)

Any more for any more?

Are things improving yet?

things are still getting worse!

How about refusing to give info to rep authorised on GL24/TAS1 etc because authorisation not put on system or still in post tray waiting to be processed - just like JC+!