Just wanted to bring this up to see if anyone else has come across this with any other council.

I was dealing with a client who had a state pension and once the assumed income from savings had been totalled, which was £17094, equalled to £17.41 Guarantee & Savings Pension Credit being payable. I went on task if she received full CTB / HB. She had been advised that as she had savings over £16000, she was not entitled, which is incorrect. I contacted the Council on the clients behalf, and they continued to stand by there opinion. In the end, they decided to send an application pack to the client to complete and they would look at it, but when I asked again about the savings, they said again, that she would not be entitled. I went on to query with the local CAB's in the area, to see if they had the same problem, and they at first, agreed with the council, though were more open to criticism than the council and had forwarded the details to there policy and proceedures HQ.

So, in short, has anyone else had this problem with there LA?

Hi
I've just been browsing the HB/CTB Guidance Manual on-line, and if that is what your LA is relying on it's no wonder they've made that mistake (go to the link for the Guidance Manual from the 'toolkit' link on Rightsnet).

It's clearly labelled as 4 April 2004 amendment, and the introductory explanations to the HB and CTB scheme don't mention Pension Credit anywhere! Section C (about assessment of capital) says this -
" 2.01 The reason for looking first at the capital rules before the assessment of HB/CTB is that anyone who has more than £16,000 is not entitled to HB or CTB. "

I know there's separate guidance specifically on the complex interaction of PC savings/guarantee on HB/CTB ("the Pension Credit Handbook") ....

but it's inexcusable that the main body of guidance for LAs should be so out of date and misleading

alban

I've posted to them the guideance manual for the LA its on this link-
http://www.dwp.gov.uk/housingbenefit/publications/pension-credit.asp

It clearly states on page 19 paragraphs 270 and 280 regarding the treatment of capital for Pension Credit and the effect of receiving Guarantee Pension Credit on Council Tax & Housing Benefit. Im awaiting a response from the LA involved.

This is not supposed to happen! Assuming the client made a phone activated PC claim, she should have been encouraged to make a HB/CTB claim by the telephone adviser, and a generic form sent out etc. Presumably the PS adviser failed to do this, or the client did not understand. Had the system worked, the ignorance of the Local Authority official could have been circumvented.

I have heard of several similar stories about LA staff being reluctant to accept that the £16,000 universality no longer exists. For some, it seems to be hard wired into their view of the world.

If a LA official casually tells someone they are not entitled, is this is an appealable decision? At this stage, the client may well not have submitted rent or financial data, but surely it is a decision nevetheless. Decisions are supposed to come with "how to appeal" data. If so, we could argue that the original decision was defective, and insist the LA issues a proper decision (with appeal rights etc), and then appeal. This would help get around appeal deadlines that may have long passed.

The likely lack of corroboration of the phone call where the wrong advice was given should be less of a problem, given recent HB/CTB case law on believing claimants (imagine!).

If all else fails, there would be good grounds for HB/CTB backdating to 52 weeks.

But how many people will be rebuffed in this way, and not seek any good advice? Also, very worrying that the local CAB initially seemed go along with the LA error.

Steve

Age Concern England has raised this issue with DWP Housing Support --
the gist of their response was that local authorities should be aware that the primary guidance relating to HB/CTB for people entitled to Pension Credit is contained in the HB/CTB Pension Credit handbook.
They also say they intend to incorporate the Pension Credit Handbook into the main guidance manual (hopefully at the next amendment)although they are not sure when this will be.

The problem is that the HB/CTB Pension Credit handbook really should be used for all clients over 60, not just those on PC, but it’s not labelled as such. This could affect people over 60 not on PC who contact their local authority - if the LA officer uses the ordinary guidance manual they'll even be using wrong applicable amounts - see http://www.dwp.gov.uk/housingbenefit/manuals/hbgm/annex/c4annxa.pdf

We'd be interested to hear from anyone else who comes across clients over 60 not on PC who have been given incorrect information by local authorities.
Please send any examples to Sally West at wests@ace.org.uk

alban

Well thanks for the advice, I have since received a response from the council involved, and it reads like this-


"Thank you for your letter of 22nd June 2004 to the Director of Finance

Firstly, we do not have a Mr Kerrin working within the Revenues and Benefits. Indeed it appears that the council does not employ anyone of that name ( even though I had spoken to him twice).

The training material produced and delivered by our Development Team makes it clear that claimants in receipt of Guarantee Pension Credit are exempt from the £16000 capital limit. Tariff income, however, is still taken in to account.

I have, howver, asked the Development Team to issue a reminder to staff about this point just in case there is any confusion."

Unfortunately, I tried to contact the client regarding the outcome, to se if she received the application pack from the LA, though she no longer is interested as has been put off the whole thing.

Bravo LA.

Could this be new tactic to avoid official error problems? You don't just deny the advice was wrong, you deny the council official exists! Possibly Kerrin is a "nom de plume", to be used when you are not quite sure whether the advice is right.

Lets hope the training material referred to does not really encourage counting assumed income from capital, if the person is already on Guarantee Credit.

Steve

You mean there are still LA's in the country who rely on the Guidance Manual?????

This publication is worse than useless and I had thought most LA's had long ceased taking it seriously.

The DWP unfortunately seems incapable of keeping it up to date and, as has been said, it is not even properly cross-referenced to the separate manuals which have been produced for things like pension and tax credits.

So don't be too hard on the LA in this thread. They are mainly guilty of naivete in assuming that the main Government publication explaining the administration of Housing Benefit and Council Tax Benefit was accurate. How daft can you get?

I came across this problem this week. Sutton Borough Council had disallowed a claim made by a client in receipt of Guarantee Credit on the grounds that capital exceeds £16k. He had originally received the H/CTB claim pack following his PC claim but as it states the capital rule on the form itself he did not pursue the claim until I visited and explained the situation. I have now written and asked that they review their decision so the info provided in the replies to the original query will be very useful if they do not review favourably.

Did you ask for a backdate for the time he didn't claim (as he had been given wrong information by their form) ? If so what did they say ?

For any claimant over 60, Housing Benefit should be automatically backdated to October 2003 (or to when first entitled to HB if it is after that date), if claimed before October 2004. This has now been extended, alongside PC backdating, so that HB will be backdated for up to 12 months. So these HB claims should be paid from October 2003. Sorry, cant remember the regulations.

We did ask on the original claim for it to be backdated but have not received a response yet, will update when we do.