I made what I hoped would be a quick phone call to the Child Benefit Office, as I just wanted the fax number to send in an appeal which was nearing the deadline.

Apparently, they don't have a fax number, and if appeals are near the deadline, that's too bad, and they should have sent them in earlier.

I almost felt sorry for them - I mean, in 2007, you really might expect that a large office like that could run to a fax machine, wouldn't you?

Robbo (who has a fax number)

And yet their all singing and dancing website says this: -

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/childbenefit/aboutus.htm

My friend google gives this return:

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/publications/dss/2001/cbamend/ch193d.pdf

Which gives a fax number of 0191 225 1625, having said that this was when Ch Ben was administered by DWP.

Maybe they got rid of the fax machines when the Revenue took over because they were not tax deductible.

David

It may just be coincidence but I remeber TAx Credits also denying that their offices had fax machines when I spoke to them earlier in the year,

Toby Lintern
Welfare Rights Officer

Sounds like you had a similar converstion to the one I had last week.

I was trying to obtain a fax number so i could fax my clients auth through so i could discuss relevant matters!

CHB stated that they 'could' give me a fax number but it would be pointless as the fax would not be looked at for days and even then would not be treated as important! They advised that it would be best if the client rang herself................I tried to point out that the fact i was involved was due to the client not being able to phone but hey, its not their problem apparently....!!!!!

H

Thu 18-Oct-07 04:01 PM by shawn

I phoned CBC this morning having faxed the revised TC689 joint child benefit/tax credits authority form to TCO as instructed. They told me that there was no authority on the system and had never heard of a TC689. I tried to explain and the person just explained to me helpfully that child benefit and tax credits were different allowances. Eventually I was given fax number to send authority direct to CBC. I phoned again an hour later and was told that fax is in a completely seperate building and all they can offer is a 24 hour call back. I suppose I will have to get a mobile phone (i am one of the 6%, or whatever it is, Luddites without one!) and leave it turned on in the tribunal I am at tomorrow. So they do have at least one fax but it is kept well out of the way of anybody who you can speak to.

Having phoned for a second client and had a similar conversation I contacted TCO and spoke to someone in the vicinity of the section which sent out the new forms/procedure letter - they were all out doing presentations etc (they should be entertaining!) but he thought he understood the problem. He said he would get person he thought in a position to help at CBC to contact me. Surprise, suprise - some hours late and nothing yet.

Is anyone else having similar problems with this new authority system?

Tony

We've been told to fax the new authorities for urgent queries for both TCs and CHB to the Preston TCO Policy Liaison and External Relations on a designated fax number 01772 235119 with our OIN (Office ID number). The same helpful guy always rings us back to acknowledge receipt and confirms it's now on the TC system but then warns us it takes 24 hours to get on the CHB system (er ???). When we do ring CHB 24-48 hours later they ALWAYS say they haven't got authority.

I've just spoken to a bloke at TCO office above and he says the CHB authority is put on the system for the CHB dept relevant to the client. He agrees we shouldn't be having these problems at all. He's asked me to email him so he can bring it up with a very specific individual at CHB office as it's unacceptable.

So there you go, they do have all sorts of new fangled technology including human beings able to access systems, faxes and even e.mail addresses so let's see.

Sue

That's exactly what was happening to me and it sounds like you are following the same route I did. Is the man at TCO who phones you Frank? You may find that the person you speak to at CB office is Val - she appears to be his equivalent there and similarly helpful. She will then get you to fax authority directly to her and it seems to work. I sent her 4 last week and afterwards managed to have meaningful contact with CB on all of them.

I could not quite discover why it does not work when Frank sends it to her?

It all seems a very fragile and a rather touchingly personal system to have to rely on in such bureaucracies. Obviously, the system should work properly but clearly doesn't.

Good luck
Tony

"Is the man at TCO who phones you Frank"?

No, he's not very forthcoming at all!

Sorry!

Frank's nice. We like him very much.

So you should be Paul.

Yes Tony it is Frank but the person I spoke to yesterday who was concerned about the problems we are experiencing and who offered to look into it is Roger Armstrong. He was after some specific incidents so let me know if you want his email.

Sue

Yes that would be useful. Is he in TCO or CBC? When I took it up before, I spoke to someone who answered the phone for Policy Section at TCO but I don't remember his name. He gave a message to someone in the Policy section which resulted in me being phoned by Val. They seem to be able to talk to each other without having any noticeable effect on the process. I should be able to provide him with specific incidents as I deal regularly with situations where children changing household.

Needless to say the very next one I faxed to Val didn't work - nothing on system when I phoned today and I had to fax again to specific section - much wasting of time.

Looks like there is a Frank fan club developing, although we wouldn't want to embarrass him!

Tony

Aw little Frank what a sweetie. I want him as Head of Whole of TCO, CBC and DWP.

Tony, I've sent you Roger Armstrong's email address and the number I contacted him on although it's probably the same as you've used before. Let us know if you get anywhere.

If anyone else wants it let me know. I don't really want to put it on site for the whole of the www to be emailing him. Then again I might if we don't get this matter resolved!

Sue

Roger's obviously passed on my message as I've had a call from Aileen at CBC to apologise for the problems we were all having with the TC689 forms. I told her this is a nationwide issue.

The system updates overnight so we should always bear this in mind but apart from this slight delay, once Frank (bless) has input the TC689 it should show up on the CBC system whenever intermediaries ring.

She says if anyone is having problems with staff saying there is no authority on the system then we should ring her direct and she'll then try and sort it from their end. She confirmed I could pass on the details to other advisors.

She is Aileen Bennet, Manager on Correspondence section (0191 22 51 026). If she's not in her deputy is Audrey Parkin.

Sue

Thanks for the info - I've been off for a few days so I haven't got any further news - I'll let you know how things go

You said you sent me Roger's email address - how have you done this? My email is anthony.pickering@derbyshire.gov.uk if you need it

Tony

did it through clicking on your envelope in Rightsnet. I'll send again tomorrow as I'm on my way out

Thanks Sue - you'll have to excuse my ignorance but I don't know how that works or where it goes to
Tony

As far as I'm aware it's to send a private message to a forum member via the site.

Clarification please Shawn or Ken

As Sue said, clicking on the envelope icon enables you to email another registered user.

Nothing came directly to me. However, if the email is to the organisation then that would explain it. Derbyshire Welfare Rights is a dispersed organisation and I am based in an office 30 miles from our central office and would depend on the email being passed on to me.

If the email was sent to us rather than me then I apologise to Sue for our network failure.

Tony

Well I thought I had. Perhaps I was about to then got waylaid as is the norm. Anything can happen these days. Others on this site mention senior moments but mine have been going on for the past few years. Thoughts of retiring keep looming but then again so do thoughts of not being able to afford to.

I've just done another tester Tony

Apologies for resurrecting this topic but I'm spitting mad. They won't talk to the client because she failed the security check (she's only 16 bless her) and they won't talk to me although I've faxed authority and had the call-back from Frank to confirm he's logged it, because according to them there's no authority on the system, they've never heard of a TC689 and don't know who Frank is. And what's more, I can't speak to a supervisor because they don't have one. There's also apparently no Customer Services Manager and no Complaints Manager either. I've tried the number for Aileen Bennett but it either rings out or is permenantly engaged. Anyone have any constructive suggestions? If not, I'm heading to Newcastle with a muck spreader.

I don't really have a constructive suggestion - just empathy. I find the child benefit set up the most frustrating to deal with since they have moved over to call centres.

I have had one recently where I faxed to Aileen's office and was told by them that it was on the system. I then phoned the Helpline who say it isn't. Then when I moan the person goes away and comes back saying it is on the 'management system' and not the Helpline system and they require there own written authority, not faxed, and it can take a couple of weeks to get on their sytem. However, as it is on the other system they can arrange for a 48 hour call back. Needless to say I did not get a call back within 48 hours so phoned again. I was told that they are slow at the moment and 48 hour call backs taking up to 72 hours. 72 hours - no call - by the time I get to deal with it again it has been obver a week. I phoned yesterday and I was told I will get 3 hour emergency call - if I do not get it I should phone back for a complaints referral - 24 hours later.........

Aileen's phone number is often hard to get through on as you say and I am not sure how much it helps with the Helpline although it may help you get a call back

Take some extra muck up for me!

Tony

...and I'd happily be yee haaing in the passenger seat

There's room for everyone. We'll hire a coach and bring the muck spreader on a trailer.

Can I just add my name to the growing Frank fan club.

Just step back and think: This man's whole working life seems to consist of receiving faxes from WROs all over the country, putting them on the computer and ringing us to acknowledge them. Surely one of the most unexciting jobs in Britain.

But he does it consistently, unfailingingly and in a very pleasant manner.

I've only once had a TC689 not acknowledged, next time Frank rang me I queried it, he duly checked the computer and said 'sorry, I was on leave that week, you can't get the staff'!

Thu 29-May-08 07:42 AM by Anselmo

I've never had the pleasure of Frank's assistance but it seems he is generating a cult following....

Perhaps something like this is in order?

http://tinyurl.com/5lven6

or even:

http://www.honours.gov.uk/nominate.aspx

?!?!?!?

I'd go for it. Seriously, I think the man needs an award. I just wish he was running the whole show.

hear hear

Ditto

I think we need to be a little judicious in our praise for Frank as, if anyone from Tax Credit Office reads this, they are bound to do something about the only part of their set up that seems to work properly.

Tony

I know what you mean Tony, when I suggested (tongue only half in cheek) that we nominate Frank for an award, I naively but genuinely thought "it would really grab the management's attention and they'll ask what this guy is doing that inspires such praise from service users, then spread it through the organisation".

After I'd sobered up I realised they'd be far more likely to do completely the opposite, decide that he shouldn't have been so helpful for some absurd reason, redeploy him to a dusty corner of the basement to count paperclips and replace him with a more reliably substandard drone.

Or am I being too cynical?!?!

If the whole of the benefits and tax credits system (including HB/CTB)was administered with the same degree of professionlism and consistency that characterises Frank:

- we would all be unemployed;
- there would be less child poverty;
- there would be fewer people with mental health problems;
- there would be fewer homeless people;
- social services budgets would help more people
- there would be greater efficiency in the departments, better morale and less staff absence;
- there would be less fraud;
- there would be considerably less error;
- the legal aid budget would reduce;
- more money would be available for other government services;
- any more?


Just think what would happen if EVERY public body worked in such a way! It keeps me going...

ps. I'll tap the muck spreader into the sewerage system so we can get a continuous supply!!! hahaha

I started another similar thread. Here is a link as it provides some useful info.

http://www.rightsnet.org.uk/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=108&topic_id=3452&mesg_id=3452&page=

Cheers