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Top Policy topic #671

Subject: "Benefit tourism: fact or fiction?" First topic | Last topic
Tony Bowman
                              

Welfare Rights Advisor, Reading Community Welfare Rights Unit
Member since
25th Nov 2004

Benefit tourism: fact or fiction?
Tue 18-Sep-07 09:55 AM

A colleague and I are discussing the possible reasons why some people arrive in the UK with no means to support themselves (excluding refugees/asylum seekers).

We are interested to hear views on the subject. The trigger to this debate was an argument I had with my grandparents, who produced a copy of The Sun with an article claiming that a Polish publication was encouraging migration by extolling the simplicity and availability of UK benefits and free, furnished, housing. And yesterday, I saw a young Polish single mother who had arrived in the UK with no means to support herself and her family. In the past I remember speaking to an Indian client who said that there is a general belief that the UK is a land of gold and riches.

Obviously there are many different political views wrapped up in this, and (for once!! Lol) we don’t want to express one. But obviously, there is a perception around the world that the UK is a land of easy living. Since our professional experience doesn’t support the perception, we were wondering where it comes from? Does anyone know?

  

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Replies to this topic
RE: Benefit tourism: fact or fiction?, andyp4, 18th Sep 2007, #1
RE: Benefit tourism: fact or fiction?, nevip, 18th Sep 2007, #2
      RE: Benefit tourism: fact or fiction?, keith venables, 21st Sep 2007, #3
      RE: Benefit tourism: fact or fiction?, jj, 24th Sep 2007, #4
      RE: Benefit tourism: fact or fiction?, toxteth, 12th Oct 2007, #5
           RE: Benefit tourism: fact or fiction?, Joanna, 15th Oct 2007, #6
           RE: Benefit tourism: fact or fiction?, suelees, 15th Oct 2007, #7
                RE: Benefit tourism: fact or fiction?, Joanna, 15th Oct 2007, #8
                     RE: Benefit tourism: fact or fiction?, ariadne2, 16th Oct 2007, #9

andyp4
                              

Welfare Benefits Advisor, South Somerset District Council (Yeovil)
Member since
16th Jul 2007

RE: Benefit tourism: fact or fiction?
Tue 18-Sep-07 11:40 AM

Going off at a tangent and stating the obvious in very shallow terms, the global market is as much a shift of people as it is goods and capital. E.g. economic, political and environmental degradation in Africa leading (forcing) to young Africans travelling thousands of miles across deserts, warzones and in make shift boats to Spanish islands and mainland etc. East europeans leaving their homelands as the internal economies and social infrastructure implodes, due to what is called errrrrrrr competition i.e. the free market.

Creates a situation where people have to leave, whatever the hardships, and faced with mass global media, there maybe some individuals who may or may not think the UK is Eldorado. But ultimately, people coming to the UK for work with no monies whatsoever isn't a new phenomenon e.g. the Jewish influx from eastern europe end of 19th and start of 20th centuries, Irish before and after, the Windrush Afro-carribean generation, Ugandan/Kenya Asians, and so on and so forth to the present.

I think we forget the past immigration cycles and the reasons underpinning them far to easily, hence ethnocentrism and racism pop up everytime there is a new cycle.

Britain is an obvious destination because of our colonial imperialistic past, even more so when you bring London into the equation because its more typical of a city state in terms of pluralism and has pockets of every nationality most of us can think of.






  

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nevip
                              

welfare rights adviser, sefton metropolitan borough council, liverpool.
Member since
22nd Jan 2004

RE: Benefit tourism: fact or fiction?
Tue 18-Sep-07 04:20 PM

Benefit tourism is an absolute lie invented by the gutter press and opportunistic politicians.

I essentially agree with Andy. Migrations have always occurred. The reasons (as opposed to the causes) are not complex. People fleeing persecution (16th Century French Huguenots), people seeking a sustainable existence off the land (North American Plains Indians), people seeking employment following the collapse in rural economies (18th and 19th century agricultural workers in Britain flooding into the new industrial towns and cities).

People do not throw themselves into a life of uncertainty to live on the pittance that is means tested benefits. They want a better life, to work and to provide for themselves and their families. They may end up working for a pittance but that is a different story.

Why come to Britain? Andy makes a good point about the cosmopolitan nature of London. And to add to his point about imperialism. People tend to go where they have family or kin or where there are already others from their place of origin. Similarly, people will go where they can speak the language. It is a fact that English is a major international language and many immigrants from former British colonies will speak English and will feel more at home in Britain than in, say, France.

Conversely, many immigrants from former French colonies are more likely to go to France than Britain. The same is true of people from former Dutch and Portuguese colonies.

Proximity is also a major factor. South Africa is currently absorbing thousands of Zimbabwean immigrants as that country goes slowly into meltdown. Pakistan currently absorbs thousands of immigrants from Afghanistan.

As for Polish immigrants in particular. I don’t know why they would want to come here rather than another European country. I suspect that they don’t and other European countries are absorbing as many if not more than Britain. It may be that The British economy is currently doing better than other European economies and that is its attraction.

Anyway, the anecdotal evidence is that Polish immigrants (like others) are coming here to find work and not claim benefits. There may be a particular affiliation between Poland and England existing since the Second World War when many Poles flew in the RAF and were part of the Polish resettlement after the war was over.

There will always be a minority in any society who want something for nothing or who want to do as little as possible for as much as possible. I don’t have the definitive answers but I do know one thing. Benefit tourism is a lie.

  

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keith venables
                              

welfare rights caseworker, leicester law centre
Member since
22nd Jan 2004

RE: Benefit tourism: fact or fiction?
Fri 21-Sep-07 12:03 PM

The reason for the large number of Poles is presumably to do with the fact that the UK, along with Ireland and Sweden (I think) has (or at least had) the most relaxed rules for the A8 countries. I understand that the remainder of the "old" EU set even more stringent controls on A8 nationals, particularly in terms of access to the labour market. we allow A8 nationals to do any kind of work, provided they register, I understand that elsewhere the situation is more like that for the A2 in that nationals of A8 countries are restricted to specified industries/occupations.

We've seen relatively few people from the A8 as benefits clients, even though there are very clearly large numbers of them in Leicester. My colleague who deals with housing problems on the other hand has seen a large number of them. The reason of course is that they have come to work, and in general are working. Every single one of the clients we have had concerning benefits has worked, the problem has always been that they have had to stop working through illness, redundancy or pregnancy.

  

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jj
                              

welfare rights adviser, saltley & nechells law centre birmingham
Member since
21st Jan 2004

RE: Benefit tourism: fact or fiction?
Mon 24-Sep-07 02:15 PM

i haven't seen any Polish or A8 clients. a friend at an employment resource centre reports lots of Poles seeking help with finding jobs, no queries about claiming benefits.

  

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toxteth
                              

families adviser, toxteth citizens advice bureau, liverpool
Member since
20th Jul 2006

RE: Benefit tourism: fact or fiction?
Fri 12-Oct-07 03:29 PM

As regards Polish people: on Radio Four news this week, I heard it said that a survey of what happened to them after they arrived in Britain found that the majority ended up in managerial or administrative jobs. Clearly not benefit tourism!

  

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Joanna
                              

Student Adviser, Information and Advice Service,, Union of Brunel Students, Brunel University
Member since
28th Jan 2004

RE: Benefit tourism: fact or fiction?
Mon 15-Oct-07 09:29 AM

Did you see the Dispatches on Channel 4 on October 1? Ranking ethnic minorities according to their contribution to society.
http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/dispatches/immigrants+the+inconvenient+truth/867147
It transpired that Poles work almost the longest hours of almost any ethnic group - they are second only to the Americans - and earn the lowest hourly wage, just £7.30. Only a tiny fraction of Polish people burden the state by claiming benefits.
"Call spade a spade" or "frothing at the mouth right-wing"- I haven't decided yet.
But being Polish myself, I can try to explain few things; the unemployment in PL is so severe, that it is an absolute necessity to travel to find work; Poles are hard-case "honour" nuts- claiming benefits is fine, as long as you work (so yeah, they'll go for ChB, Tax Credits, HB- but will rather die then sign-on).

The media gets it wrong in UK, they get it wrong in PL too. If you think however that polish ChB is worth £3 pm, I am not surprsed that claimants are prepared to jump hoops.

  

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suelees
                              

Welfare and Debt Advisor, Stephensons Solicitors, Wigan
Member since
28th Jan 2004

RE: Benefit tourism: fact or fiction?
Mon 15-Oct-07 09:34 AM

Last night watched Ken Loach's 'It's A Free World'. Benefit tourists my arse.

  

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Joanna
                              

Student Adviser, Information and Advice Service,, Union of Brunel Students, Brunel University
Member since
28th Jan 2004

RE: Benefit tourism: fact or fiction?
Mon 15-Oct-07 09:50 AM

couldn't have put it better, Sue, lol

  

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ariadne2
                              

Welfare lawyer and social policy collator, Basingstoke CAB
Member since
13th Mar 2007

RE: Benefit tourism: fact or fiction?
Tue 16-Oct-07 07:41 PM

As to why so many Poles end up in Britian, first many towns and cities have thriving Polish communities from exiles from the second world war (certainly my childhood home town Bradford did - one of my best friends at school was of Polish descent - and so does my adopted home Basingstoke) so maybe word gets back that Britain isn't too bad a place to be a foreigner in. The other is that many of the Poles I have met (like a locum vet, one of the girls at the hairdressers, assorted waitresses and shop assistants) are graduates and spek excellent English. The vet told me that this was essential for her studies, as all the best text books were in English and so was the teaching.

The one rule that is absolutely certain is that the latest batch of immigrants, whoever they may be, are always blamed for all the ills of society, and the scare stories about them are remarkably similar over the years. Bet the Ancient Britons said exactly the same about the Romans.

  

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Top Policy topic #671First topic | Last topic