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Top Incapacity related benefits topic #5109

Subject: "No fixed abode" First topic | Last topic
Derek
                              

CAB Adviser, Esher CAB
Member since
09th Mar 2004

No fixed abode
Thu 29-Apr-10 04:22 PM

Cl. on ESA/HB - living in B & B. Loses accommodation & now of no fixed abode. Tells DWP. ESA is suspended - Cl. told they cannot pay it to someone who doesn't have a permanent address. Is this correct?

If it is, does it have to be the address at which the claimant resides, or could it be an accommodation address (such as the mailbox shops one sees in the high street, or a relative's address)?

  

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Replies to this topic
RE: No fixed abode, yvonnebennett, 30th Apr 2010, #1
RE: No fixed abode, andyp4, 30th Apr 2010, #2
      RE: No fixed abode, Steve Johnson, 30th Apr 2010, #3
           RE: No fixed abode, Derek, 30th Apr 2010, #4
                RE: No fixed abode, Steve Johnson, 04th May 2010, #5
                     RE: No fixed abode, nevip, 04th May 2010, #6
                          RE: No fixed abode, Derek, 04th May 2010, #7

yvonnebennett
                              

welfare rights adviser, city and county of swansea
Member since
21st Feb 2005

RE: No fixed abode
Fri 30-Apr-10 10:23 AM

no - it is the same as IS - can be paid but without the premiums, including the components if income-related

  

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andyp4
                              

Welfare Benefits Advisor, South Somerset District Council (Yeovil)
Member since
16th Jul 2007

RE: No fixed abode
Fri 30-Apr-10 12:32 PM

Forgive the pedantry, because i read your posting in the same context as Yvonne i.e. 'person without accommodation'.

But i was just wondering because i've heard so many times people described as 'no fixed abode' in the context of benefits voiced as how the wider community may define NFA e.g. squatting, living in benders, converted buses etc, sofa surfing, staying in friends and families spare rooms on a ad hoc basis for a few nights and then somewhere else so as not to outstay their welcome.

But the DWP meaning is very different from the above examples i.e. 'persons without accommodation', might be worth checking out page 662 latest CPAG welfs handbook 2010/2011 which discusses definitions and arguments relating to 'persons without accommodation' etc etc etc because of the possible financial implications for your client .

  

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Steve Johnson
                              

Manager, Walthamstow CAB
Member since
24th Oct 2005

RE: No fixed abode
Fri 30-Apr-10 01:24 PM

Here is a clip from the Decision Makers Guide, which confirms matters...

"People without accommodation - ESA(IR)
Applicable amount for people without accommodation

54156 Where a DM decides that a claimant has no accommodation the applicable amount will comprise of the normal personal allowance for the claimant1 plus where
relevant, the amount of the support component or WRAC2. (the DM cannot for
example include housing costs or premiums).

Note: ESA(Cont) is not affected by this guidance.

1 ESA Regs, Sch 5, para 1; 2 WR Act 2007 s 4(2)(b)

54157 DMG 54156 applies only to people without accommodation. The fact that a person may have no fixed address is not relevant to the decision.

Meaning of accommodation
54158 The word “accommodation” is not defined in the SS legislation, but in this context it means an effective shelter from the elements
1. which is capable of being heated and
2. in which the occupants can sit, lie down, cook and eat and
3. which is reasonably suited for continuous occupation.

54159 The site of the accommodation may alter from day to day, but it is still
accommodation if the structure is habitable. Material which gives only a small
amount of protection from the elements, for example
1. cardboard boxes
2. sleeping bags
3. bus shelters
4. park benches
do not fall within the description of accommodation.

Motor Cars
54160 Motor cars are designed as a means of transport. They are not intended for use as a dwelling house or living premises and are not suited for continuous occupation. A person who is living in a car cannot be regarded as having accommodation1.
1 R(IS) 23/98

Mobile motor homes
54161 Some mobile motor homes have reached a level of sophistication and are designed for living in. Mobile motor homes that contain the normal range of facilities for domestic life and are suited for continuous occupation should be regarded as
accommodation.

Absence from home
54162 Claimants should be regarded as having accommodation if they are
1. temporarily absent from the dwelling occupied as the home and
2. for the period of their absence, living a lifestyle as though they have no
accommodation.

In these circumstances housing costs may be allowed (see DMG Chapter 44)."

Steve

  

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Derek
                              

CAB Adviser, Esher CAB
Member since
09th Mar 2004

RE: No fixed abode
Fri 30-Apr-10 04:22 PM

Many thanks for the replies. I omitted to say the ESA is IR, & that Cl. is on support component. The "person without accommodation" rules will apply because he has been sleeping rough some of the time (& staying with friends or in B & B at other times).

Steve: I have now looked at CPAG & the Regs. & am a bit puzzled. You quote from DMG "54156 Where a DM decides that a claimant has no accommodation the applicable amount will comprise of the normal personal allowance for the claimant1 plus where
relevant, the amount of the support component or WRAC2"

What does "where relevant" mean? I can't find anything in Sched. 5, or in Reg 67 (which it refs. to) or in Sched. 4 (which that Reg. refs. to) or in S4 of the Act which allows payment of the support or WRA component, & CPAG says that for IRESA you don't get either. Presumably there is another Reg. which grants them for CBESA & the "where relevant" relates to that. If you happen to know & can confirm that, I would be grateful.

  

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Steve Johnson
                              

Manager, Walthamstow CAB
Member since
24th Oct 2005

RE: No fixed abode
Tue 04-May-10 11:06 AM

Hi Derek,

I am afraid I don't know. I thought that 'where relevant' is there simply to allow for either the support component or activity component to be added, depending on what group the claimant is in. I realise that ESA main phase components are replacements for disability premium, and also that premiums are not paid to people without accommodation, but maybe the main phase component in ESA is allowed as some kind of concession. May be barking up the wrong tree though.

Steve

  

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nevip
                              

welfare rights adviser, sefton metropolitan borough council, liverpool.
Member since
22nd Jan 2004

RE: No fixed abode
Tue 04-May-10 11:18 AM

A person “who is without accommodation” is only entitled to the personal allowance (ESA Regs, schedule 5, para 1, and, reg 67(1)(a)).

  

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Derek
                              

CAB Adviser, Esher CAB
Member since
09th Mar 2004

RE: No fixed abode
Tue 04-May-10 03:53 PM

nevip

Thank you. That is what I thought, but the DMG quote seems to imply otherwise "where relevant"!

Never mind. Cl. is now in accommodation again & tells me DWP have paid him all the ESA (at full rate) for the period he was without. I can't understand that either!

  

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