Discussion archive

Top Incapacity related benefits topic #5034

Subject: "The new Med 3 certificate and new claims for ESA" First topic | Last topic
Peter Newton
                              

Deputy Manager, Woodseats Advice Centre, Sheffield
Member since
27th Jan 2004

The new Med 3 certificate and new claims for ESA
Wed 31-Mar-10 03:35 PM

On the new Med 3 certificate to be introduced on 6 April, GPs can indicate either that their patient is not fit for work or that they may be fit for work taking account of advice the GP gives about working hours, workplace adaptations, altered duties etc.

Do we know if entitlement to ESA on a new claim is conditional on the GP ticking the not fit for work box or might a claim be allowed if the GP suggests that the client is fit for work subject to certain conditions being met. eg if the GP seems to be suggesting that the patient would be able to work only a number of hours per week which fall within permitted work limits, would the ESA claim be allowed?

  

Top      

Replies to this topic
RE: The new Med 3 certificate and new claims for ESA, RNIB Alban, 01st Apr 2010, #1
RE: The new Med 3 certificate and new claims for ESA, nevip, 01st Apr 2010, #2
      RE: The new Med 3 certificate and new claims for ESA, anned, 23rd Apr 2010, #3
           RE: The new Med 3 certificate and new claims for ESA, nevip, 23rd Apr 2010, #4
                RE: The new Med 3 certificate and new claims for ESA, anned, 23rd Apr 2010, #5
                     RE: The new Med 3 certificate and new claims for ESA, stevegale, 23rd Apr 2010, #6
                          RE: The new Med 3 certificate and new claims for ESA, ariadne2, 23rd Apr 2010, #7
                               RE: The new Med 3 certificate and new claims for ESA, stevegale, 23rd Apr 2010, #8

RNIB Alban
                              

Welfare Rights Service, RNIB, Judd St, London WC1H
Member since
16th Oct 2007

RE: The new Med 3 certificate and new claims for ESA
Thu 01-Apr-10 07:06 AM

I remember that the consultation document was very clear that a 'may be fit for some work now' certificate would be accepted as proof of incapacity for benefits purposes
- page 12, para 45 of this doc -
www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/reforming-the-medical-statement-consultation-28may2009.pdf

I don't think there was any reference to this in regs, but presumably there has or will be DM guidance to make this clear.

  

Top      

nevip
                              

welfare rights adviser, sefton metropolitan borough council, liverpool.
Member since
22nd Jan 2004

RE: The new Med 3 certificate and new claims for ESA
Thu 01-Apr-10 08:20 AM

ESA must be payable as what the GP is essentially saying is that the claimant has limited capability for work.

  

Top      

anned
                              

Welfare benefits worker, Hambleton Citizens Advice Bureau, Northallerton
Member since
06th Apr 2005

RE: The new Med 3 certificate and new claims for ESA
Fri 23-Apr-10 09:10 AM

What if the claimant was on SSP? My client was working 30 hours per week but has a "fit note" saying he could work 15 hours doing non-physical duties. He is worried about surviving on the reduced wages and will not qualify for JSA or Permitted Work on ESA as earnings are too high. I saw another recent post saying that an employee could be found incapable on some days:

"Finally, where employees are certified as ‘may be fit’ to return on reduced hours, employers will have to consider whether to pay the employees SSP or company sick pay for the portion of their normal week that they are not working. One possible interpretation of a fit note that says a full-time employee may be fit to return on a ‘three days per week’ basis is that they remain unfit for work on the other two days per week. The new regime provides no clear answer as to whether sick pay is due on the days not worked, although the DWP guidance encourages employers to consider paying full pay during a phased return."

but I think he would find it difficult to convince the employer to pay both wages and SSP even if he could change the advice from hours to days.

If he could reduce his hours to 14, he would be able to claim permitted work on ESA, but I cannot see how he could claim ESA as he is still within the SSP period and still employed, so entitled to SSP when sick.

He is considering going back for 30 hours so that he can claim WTC (does not qualify for the disability element as not off sick long enough).

Any thoughts appreciated.

Anne



  

Top      

nevip
                              

welfare rights adviser, sefton metropolitan borough council, liverpool.
Member since
22nd Jan 2004

RE: The new Med 3 certificate and new claims for ESA
Fri 23-Apr-10 09:42 AM

If he's on SSP he can claim Income Support.

  

Top      

anned
                              

Welfare benefits worker, Hambleton Citizens Advice Bureau, Northallerton
Member since
06th Apr 2005

RE: The new Med 3 certificate and new claims for ESA
Fri 23-Apr-10 09:51 AM

Thanks, I realise that, but SSP is more than the personal allowance for a single person and he is not entitled to any premiums.

I have discussed this with a colleague at the Welfare Ben Unit and we think he can claim SSP for any full days he does not work (only the daily rate so not very much) if he does 15 hours, or he can agree with his employer that he is not fit to do his normal job (CPAG 2010-11 p 577) and stay on SSP.

  

Top      

stevegale
                              

Co-ordinator, Disability Information Service (Torbay)
Member since
03rd Feb 2004

RE: The new Med 3 certificate and new claims for ESA
Fri 23-Apr-10 12:22 PM

The consultation paper stated:

"...rules will be added to the Schedules to allow a doctor to issue a medical statement following their consideration of a report from another doctor or other healthcare professional provided the report was written no more than a month previously; and

rules will be adapted to allow doctors to use the Med 3 to certify an individual’s fitness or otherwise for work retrospectively, where there has been a prior medical assessment (i.e. one more than 24 hours prior to the statement being issued).

As a result of these changes regulations relating to the Med 5 will be revoked".

From the above is it safe to assume that the new 'flexi' Med 3 can be backdated (subject to the conditions stated) according to a doctor's opinion and with their discretion on the retrospective timescale?

  

Top      

ariadne2
                              

Welfare lawyer and social policy collator, Basingstoke CAB
Member since
13th Mar 2007

RE: The new Med 3 certificate and new claims for ESA
Fri 23-Apr-10 02:52 PM

What this means is that if the patient has consulted another health professional (other doctor at the practice, nurse at the practice, A&E) and the doctor now seeing him has details from that earlier consultation, he can isssue a certificate based on somebody else's examination without necessarily having to examine him himself. Makes life a lot easier if the condition goes on a bit or if the patient has been in hospital. I presume that the certificate can also be given from the date of the earlier examination or there wouldn't be a lot of point.

  

Top      

stevegale
                              

Co-ordinator, Disability Information Service (Torbay)
Member since
03rd Feb 2004

RE: The new Med 3 certificate and new claims for ESA
Fri 23-Apr-10 03:15 PM

Yes, agree a lot easier. In the past have experienced confusion with med5s when doctors have refused to backdate, even though they'd seen the patient and nothing had really changed. Used to be a nice bonus for lone parents (with disabilities) to pick up the disability premium on IS backdated via a med5.

Reminds me of a client who once wanted a laptop for her disabled daughter but had never claimed carers allowance. Hey presto! One laptop thanks to the 12 month backdating rule, long since abolished for CA. But that was long long ago...

  

Top      

Top Incapacity related benefits topic #5034First topic | Last topic