Understand that The Pension Service will now accept photocopes of doucuments as evidence of income etc. If this is so when did they introduce these changes?

we published an HB circular on this recently -

Using scanned or photocopied evidence to determine Pension Credit entitlement

I'm aware of this circular, it relates to local authority HB departments and verification etc. I understand The Pension Service has widined the evidence requirements to include photocopies from claimants themselves.

I cannot see that being acceptable under the Verification framework, which the DWP (or BA as was) always made out to be the Holy Grail, which they seem to think lowly LA VO's/welfare rights workers couldn't possibly live up to.

Even with the Pension Service's more enlightened attitude, I think allowing customers to self verify would be a concession too far....?

I know what you meann, but locally The Pewnsion Service has said at a number of meetings that they will accept phtocopies - I`ve yet to try this out with Norwich so I will let you know.

I have been submitting photocopies to the Pension Service with regard to Pension Credit for some months now, we have been doing a pension credit campaign, much to the distress of the pension service, but this has saved a lot of messing around and thankfully I have not had hardly any porblems,(famous last words)not heard that claimants can do this themselves.

Acceptance of photocopies is a useful development. Clients' original savings details sent in December to Newcastle were "lost" for about 10 days despite being sent registered. On the seventh day the savings originals turned up at client's address in a plain envelope without any covering note or reference slip or number. I wonder what would have happened if the originals including share certs had fallen into nefarious hands.

I am trying to persuade the PS to change the downloadable form application form to include a reference that 1) saving details over six thousand pounds are required and 2)these are best verified at the local DWP rather than sending them off to Newcastle. My local PS office does not wish to give receipts for application forms submitted. Any comments please.

Ombudsman also on the case

Our local Pension Credit service are holding surgery's at our local Council One Stop Shop Buildings, they do a couple of half days a week. They verify documents, complete claims etc. They say they want to be more approachable to claimants and seems to be working okay, does save claimants sending documents or travelling miles to the nearest Pension Service building, could approach your local service, our local service are always going on about partnership building!!!

see today's rightsnet news story -

Written proof of income and capital not required for Pension Credit claims

If that annoucement is accurate, then it makes a mockery of the Verification framework: not so much moving the goalposts - more a case of dismantling them completely. What's the world coming to when you can make up the rules as you go along, particularly when given the reasons in this case.

One can only imagine the reaction if an HB section decided to drop verification because their department was over-stretched. It will also cause HB/CTB sections problems in that they are supposed to accept that an award of Guaranteed pension credit by the PS is a guarantee that the claim has been correctly verified.

OK, I'm off back to the dark room with my tabs ..............

...easing up on verification might assist them in losing 30,000 staff.
I wonder whose interests they are looking out for? (Call me cynical)

Cynical doesn't enter into it - strikes me as pure logical common sense - from unofficial sources I hear that the JCP here, and the PS in Norwich are struggling to cope with what they've got now ......

Further to the Guardian story, see below for the guidance since issued to PC staff.......

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Lines to Take – Guardian article 18/03/04

The Guardian article states civil servants have been ordered to stop demanding written proof of income and wealth. Steve Webb comments we are relaxing checks.

The article states that we have suspended inquiries for written evidence of the value of premium bonds, tax and employment pensions.

The article states staff are told to take answers to many questions over the phone instead of sending letters.

This is misleading. We are not relaxing checks and are still asking for written proof from customers where appropriate.

Staff have been advised to telephone customers to request written evidence rather than delay their application by writing to them. We still need to see documentation of certain savings and investments.

Staff have been advised that if we are having difficulties in obtaining verification, in some circumstances we can accept photocopied evidence.

For example, we know from customer feedback that some customers may be experiencing problems in providing all the details of their occupational pensions. In these instances, we can assist customers by obtaining them from a bank statement.

Our aim is to ensure Pension Credit is easy to apply for and we continually review our processes to ensure this is the case. We are still carrying out checks and verifying information, but now in a different way to speed up the delivery of Pension Credit to ensure that pensioners get what is rightfully theirs.

The following lines provide more detail.


1. Customers are put off from applying for Pension Credit because they don’t want to send in their valuable documents for verification.

We need to see personal documents such as bank statements and birth certificates to verify information given in the customer’s application and to establish their entitlement to Pension Credit. We have procedures in place to ensure that these documents are handled securely so customers should not be worried about sending them to us. All documents will be returned to customers securely and timeously.

But we need to keep this in context. Where a customer is already in receipt of Retirement Pension, we would not need to re-verify their date of birth by seeing their birth certificate again. We also do not need to verify customers’ savings of less that £6,000 (£10,000 if they are in a Care Home).

However, where we do need to see documents, we don’t want people to be put off from making a Pension Credit application, so there are alternatives to sending them to us through the post.

2. What are these alternatives?

If customers do not want to send their original documents through the post, they can be verified by the Pension Service local service. The Pension Credit Application Line and pension centres can both help customers make suitable arrangements with the Pension Service local service. Customers can arrange to go to a surgery (either on a drop-in or appointment basis) or be visited at home at a time that is convenient for them.

3. Some organisations accept photocopies. Do you?

We would prefer to see original documents but understand that this is not always possible. Therefore, under certain circumstances (e.g. if the customer is not able to attend a surgery), we can accept photocopies of general documents. These include bank statements, savings books and wage slips.

4. Won’t this mean unacceptable levels of fraud and error will creep in to the system?

No. We have introduced these measures based on an assessment of risk and are satisfied that it is low. We have only introduced measures where there is a justifiable business reason and it is safe to so and will keep under review.

5. What about other documents such as birth/marriage certificates? Can you accept photocopies of those?

Crown copyright prohibits the photocopying of birth, death or marriage certificates. Therefore, we cannot accept photocopies of these documents. We will need to see the originals, either sent to us through the post or verified on a face-to-face basis by the Pension Service local service.

6. Is it true that you’re beginning to accept photocopies because you are worried about missing your targets and you think this will encourage more people to apply?

No. We are making steady progress towards achieving our targets. We have made this change because we want everyone eligible to apply and do not want the requirement to send in original documents to be a barrier to that.

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We have now been advised that the 'easements' on verification have been withdrawn and The Pension service now require orginal documents etc. I'm not too sure it is coincidental but The Pension Service have achieved the targets on Pension Credit take up.

This whole area is a terrible muddle. CABx find that many people are reluctant to send valuable original documents to pension centres. If they decline to do so , the Pension Service will allow them to take the documents to one of their local surgeries for verification, or even do a home visit for people who cannot get to a surgery. But people aren't told this at the outset.

As for copies, here is what The Pension Service sent me about their practice (I wouldn't call it a policy):
"We recognise that some customers are not prepared to send personal documents to The Pension Service through the post. Therefore they can be seen on a face-to-face basis by The Pension Service local service. However, once all other avenues have been exhausted photocopies of general documents may be accepted.

Customers will continue to be encouraged to send original documents for verification at the application stage. If it is clear that the customer does not wish to do this they will be given the option of a local service referral. PCAL agents will continue to ask customer for original documentation until further notice.

When an Electronic Application Form is received at the pension centre without supporting verification documents, a member of staff will contact the customer to request them. If it becomes apparent that the customer is unwilling to send them in, a local service referral will be offered. If this is declined the member of staff will advise that photocopies will be accepted. This is a discretionary ruling and only applies to photocopies of general documents. Copies of certificates of life events (e.g. births/marriages) will not be accepted.

The acceptance of photocopies is not being promoted as an immediate option but rather when all other avenues of verification have been exhausted. We do not want customers to lose out on any potential entitlement because they are unable or unwilling to provide original documents.

Staff have been advised to telephone customers to request written evidence rather than delay their application by writing to them. We still need to see documentation of certain savings and investments.

Staff have been advised that if we are having difficulties in obtaining verification, in some circumstances we can accept photocopied evidence.

For example, we know from customer feedback that some customers may be experiencing problems in providing all the details of their occupational pensions. In these instances, we can assist customers by obtaining them from a bank statement.

Our aim is to ensure Pension Credit is easy to apply for and we continually review our processes to ensure this is the case.

DWP are looking at options publicising guidance on verfication."

Apart from national/local government staff is it possible to get accreditation to undertake verification work in an advice agency? If so how? It is not exactly rocket science.

Verification never was rocket science - just the application of commonsense to a process which certain agencies would have us believe is so complicated and indeed mystical that only they have the expertise to do it.

However, we are now getting into the realms of DWP politics - with the dark spectre of 30000 redundancies sitting on their shoulders, no DWP section is going to willingly want any part of their business to be undertaken by Statutory or Voluntary Agencies.

At a recent BA liaison meeting, the PS local service even said that they consider the completion of AA forms as part of their "core business" - even though tyhey knew that they cannot follow up claims that have been refused. Strange that AA claim form filling didn't seriously enter into the equation prior to Oct 03.

The whole complexion of partnership working has been changed by this redundancy issue - personally I think it's only a matter of time before the scope and size of the Pension Service Local Service visiting teams undergoes a serious internal review: we have already heard of team managers having to apply for their own jobs, and from any of the staff you talk to, none of them know how secure they are. In the case of Jobcentreplus, as staff leave they are not being replaced, and no doubt this is true of PS as well.

We haven't been notified officially that our verification is no longer acceptable - until they do, we will continue to carry it out as part of the PC claiming process.

related info on others undertakaing verification -

• Social Landlords and the HB Verification Process: Immediate national extension of the Scheme
  
• Citizens Advice on course to be e-Intermediaries?

But there is no requirement in PC, HB, IS etc legislation to provide original documents. Verification is an administrative procedure which has taken on the guise of legislation.

Any refusal of benefit, refusal to decide a claim etc on the basis of non-provision of evidence is an appealable decision. I would be interesting to see how many tribunals would consider a refusal to accept a photocopy as reasonable (except in cases where DWP/LA have good reason to be suspicious).

This whole process of DWP introducing administrative procedure and then proceding as if they are law should be challenged at every opertunity.

How many claimants do you know who have (or who know a man who has)the facilities to produce convincing counterfit photocopies of documents? Anyhow, surely the biggest problem is failure to disclose income / capital.

Peter is quite right of course - there is nothing in the regs which stipulates that original documents have to be produced - it's all in the Verification guidelines - particularly in HB/CTB - any adverse decision based on a failure to produce originals is therefore highly appealable.
Whilst Pen Service have no problem with this, and the HB section can be flexible, we find it is Jobcentreplus that insist on originals - thus adding even more time to the already horrendous and unacceptable claim processing times we experience already for JSA, I/S and Incap:
Incap Benefit claim taking 22 working days, not (repeat not) including 7 working days waiting period from initial telephone call to the first interview...........