Hi, are people aware that DCS from July 09 are sending DLA renewal packs out 3 months from the end date of existing claim and not 6 months. We have only just found this out and wondered if it was common knowledge. Our service are concerned at the lack of time we will have to request the previous/original claim form in order to compare the claimant's original condition with how they present now, complete the renewal and get the claim back in time.

If it stops people sending back claim forms that are seriously out of date by the date of the decision, is it such a bad thing? One problem with the present system is that decisions are too often being made months before the renewal date, which means that changes of circumstance between the decision and the renewal can't be taken into account.

If I was the PDCS, a new claim form that looked to have been copied verbatim from the old one, often incorporating things that are no longer true (and yes I have seen lots of these, especially in cases involving children) would arouse my suspicions. Very very few people have precisely static medical conditions and even fewer precisely static resulting disability.

And have you ever looked at the previous form - not completed by you or anyone in your organisation of course - and thought "good grief (or words to that effect) however did s/he get THAT level of benefit?" Official error can go two ways.

while there may be valid points raised in terms of dates of decision etc it doesnt change the fact that on a practical basis many organisations are already struggling to cope with demand for help to complete dla forms. this will make that situation worse.

I have halved the time I spent doing DLA forms by not doing them.

Instead, I 'teach' the client the disability conditions for DLA and how to fill in the form. They do it and I check it. Thus, instead of spending 2.5-3hrs giving the intial advice and filling in the form, I spent 1-1.5 hours giving the intial advice and checking the form.

There has been no noticeable changes to the success rates of claims.

I am concerned about this news though, which I hadn't already heard, because where awards are reduced or ended then the current award will expire before a decision on a review and, in many cases, before a decision on the new claim. This has particularly bad consequences for those with motability vehicles.

There was also a proposal, some time ago, to reduce the 6-week return date to 2 weeks for new claims. Not sure what happened to that idea. We are always under the 6-week 'cosh' as we don't like clients to miss out. on the deadline. Miracles do happen though. I've just been given funding to increase capacity to provide a further 5 DLA slots a week. Suspect the increased capacity will be wiped out by all the additional ESA appeals though!

"I am concerned about this news though, which I hadn't already heard, because where awards are reduced or ended then the current award will expire before a decision on a review and, in many cases, before a decision on the new claim. This has particularly bad consequences for those with motability vehicles."

Me too.

I agree - also the effect on entitlement to relevant premiums in means-tested benefits and consequences for 'cash-flow' for many claimants arising from delays in getting a decision .

Thanks for all your input. Glad to know our service weren't the only ones who hadn't heard about the timescale changes.
We have concerns about client's losing SDP's etc. if the forms aren't back in time or if they are back, the DBC not having them processed by the end date of the award period. However, if the DBC are going to give renewals priority then that shouldn't be a problem, but how often are the client's told to get the forms in earlier that 3 months in advance or they can not guarantee they will be reassessed in time? What are the chances they will be able to cope with ALL the renewal forms going back within 3 months and being processed in time? Like your services, we will struggle to be able to help everybody within these timescales and the implications for the clients and ourselves is scary.

I share the concerns above, especially if a renewal claim has to be appealed; it is very unlikely indeed that the claim could be made, reviewed and an appeal heard before the previous claim expires,with the possible loss of premiums etc. I always though that the reason renewals were sent out six months or more before the previous award ends is to allow time for all these processes to take place.

If it is indeed DWP policy to only send renewals at three months might it be possible to request a supersession at six months and ask that the decision to award DLA from date x to date y be superseded and the award to continue to a different date in the future?

I hadn't heard about that either. Many of my clients have mental health problems and don't necessarily open mail, so the shortened time to return the forms will probably mean that with the demand for appointments combined with clients not opening mail will seriously disadvantage some of the most vulnerable.

Was news to me too so flagged it up to my colleagues - obviously we also share the concerns raised above re shortened time allowed for processing leading to unavoidable gaps in awards and subsequent impact through loss of premiums on other benefits etc.....

Now have seen slides of a PDCS presentation from July 09 that anounces this as one of various changes to "streamline the renewal process" - the lead is reduced from 26 weeks to 14, and they are also rolling out a shortened 4 page adult renewal form.

Reference also to changes to the child claim form and evidence gathering for child claims including more focus on parents, and also evidence already held by parents - guess that's both time and cost effective rather than sending out again and paying for medical reports.

Good grief, don't they consult??

WHO do they consult??

WHO do they consult??

A great question!! Probably one deserving of a thread in itself. Often you see that they consult 'disability groups' or 'adviser organisations' or some such and where these are specified we see the usual suspects: Citizens Advice, CPAG, Disability Alliance, RNID, etc, etc.

But what I've also wanted to know is who in these organisations actually gets to the giving of information - i.e. who do THEY consult...? On two occassions that I remember I was contacted by NACAB when I was in CAB (about 8 years or so altogether), but aside from that - I can only assume it's those employed in policy type roles. Some of whom I would suspect have not been advisers or had any personal experience (they are probably ideal graduate posts).

It's been pointed out to me that my previous post could be seen as overly critical of the 'usual suspects'. It was not intended to be at all critical.

There will be many people who work in those organisations who have direct personal and professioal experience of the issues they are being asked to comment upon and some who do not.

If you are one of those who replies to consultations for a national organisation, please tell us your experiences. What processes do you go through to submit responses on behalf of your organisation?

I didn't think you were being critical, I felt you were asking the same questions that all of us have asked about this and other issues.
I know I have no knowledge of anyone being asked to consult on anything major like this. The only consultation process our service has ever been involved in was the change to the Tribunals Service.
I feel that advice services SHOULD be consulted about things like the reduced time for DLA renewals, especially with regard to the impact it can have on their service provision. I know we are over stretched as it is and this change is only going to cause more stress. The potential impact on the clients is even more worrying. Do any of you think it might be worthwhile trying to campaign to get the 6 month renewal reinstated? Do you think DWP are monitoring the situation and would welcome feedback from our services?

I am not sure about consultation but when and where was this change announced - other than this thread I don't recall seeing it anywhere. (I would ,however, be the first to admit that I struggle to keep abreast of every development and press release, no matter how hard I try!).

My feeling is that the advice sector could consider challenging this change, even if the processing times are drastically reduced by the new four page form the appeal process isn't likely to be any quicker than it is currently. If the appeal process was made quicker we might then run into problems getting relevant evidence in good time so this may not be of much help.

I might be being obtuse (it is Friday after all ) but I cannot see what useful purpose is served by sending the renewal forms so late, I can see that the shortened form might be attractive in that it could reduce processing times but what difference would it make to the DWP if they were sent out at six months rather than three, they would still have to send them out and process them when they came back !

Results of "Consultation" are not always a direct result of the opinions of those who take part (whoever they are) - perhaps the question raised was the renewal process was taking too long - so then someone in the DWP decided the best way to reduce this was by issuing the forms closer to the renewal date - thus reducing the timescale without improving the decision making process -

Improving their figures but resulting in lost benefit for those who are vulnerable and their carers.

Just a thought

I don't see how if the renewal process took too long shortening the time given to the client to get them completed and returned to the DBU to process them is helpful?

To be fair to the DWP we are also probably all aware of the false sense of the luxury of time endowed by the early send out of renewal packs...can recall numerous cases of clients ringing up with renewal packs which they've had sitting on their non urgent pile for four months or so....

However another benefit of the longer timescale in preventing gaps in benefit awards was for those less obvious cases of entitlement - the six months conceivably gave a chance not only for renewal claim to be processed but also any subsequent reconsideration - before the previous award runs out. Clearly we now doubt a first decision will be issued in time, let alone a recon.

I certainly think the reduction in time should be challenged, and am not aware of any consultation on this - indeed looking at previous contributions to this thread it seems many of us were unaware of the change until it was flagged up - by this thread - after it had happened.

In terms of consultation with the DWP generally our unit is often given this opportunity to provide feedback. I particularly remember a whole series of workshops involving lots of other local advice agencies when our DBC was chosen to trial a revised DLA form - and we saw the draft form before they piloted it and commented accordingly and some changes were certainly made before they were rolled out.

As to how much of what we say really influences any policy decision made - hard to say.

It is always extremely difficult to fully assess the influence of consultation. We all know that DWP is a huge lumbering beast, that is effectively run by policy makers and lawyers who rarely (if at all) share the views or opinions of people who work directly with or on behalf of people who directly tolerate the bureaucracy of this large Government organisation.
So much so, that if an executive decision has been made to change any aspect of their operations, you can almost be assured it will occur.
Having said that, effective change to aspects of such decisions are regularly made through the consultation process, perhaps not as many as would be preferred, but changes there are.
There are many organisations represented in the partnership working and consultation process and its interesting to read that some of the postings above are from people who work for represented organisations, but do not appear to be aware of it. Is not policy work in relation to Welfare Rights delivery still an aspect of the work ?
On the topic of the thread i also agree that this decision should be challenged, if for no other reason than to gain an understanding of the proposals behind the time reduction.

There are many organisations represented in the partnership working and consultation process and its interesting to read that some of the postings above are from people who work for represented organisations, but do not appear to be aware of it. Is not policy work in relation to Welfare Rights delivery still an aspect of the work ?

This is an interesting point. I have done a good deal of policy work, including responding to consultations and challenging bad policy, during my career in WR. I worked in a CAB - paid for five years with another three voluntary - but only remember being asked twice by NACAB for social policy input at the organisational level. One was a consultation for a national HB claim form and the other for a revised prescription form - both of which were 'practical' items.

I suppose it could be said that for those of us who do work for a represented organisation it is up to us to know what the umbrella organisation is up to and to be part of it.

I can't see any published response to a consultation on this point by Citizens Advice on the website.

Up and down the country thousands of hours are spent every week helping the DWP's 'customers' complete complex forms. I wonder if anyone has researched just how many hours are spent; the cost must be substantial. Sounds like a university project.

A little consultation would have revealed that moving to a 3-month renewal period is counter productive. The essence of a DLA claim is the assembly of relevant supporting evidence, combined with careful interviewing and scribing, all of which takes time.

Less haste means more informative applications and less work for DMs, plus fewer appeals. Think back to how much easier it was when there was a 3-month review period to challenge decisions.

As all the ESA appeals start to flood in with no regard to the resources of advice agencies, I wonder if it's time for the advice sector to wake up and throw its weight around in a co-ordinated way.

I think that is the crucial point to be honest. The ability of frontline workers to feedback their thoughts, views and opinions on policy proposals and their impacts upon clients is of paramount importance, yet we know that many frontline workers are hard pressed simply keeping up with the demand for services and we also know that their is a gulf between operations and policy in many large advice organisations and networks. A similar state of affairs exists at DWP don't forget, with policies being implemented and deemed successful, when the reality on the ground can be very different.

DWP run any number of consultative forums, including the JCP CRG group, the PDCS Advisory group, their various annual events, but how many people actually have the time, energy or resources to make it to these events? Further, one must raise questions as to whether any real changes to policy can be implemented via these avenues - my experience suggests that our views are often acknowledged and then ignored, and policies implemented regardless of opposing view points or concerns.

In my experience consultation means 'a forum whereby those with an interest are informed of that which has already been decided'.

I think, from experience, that consultation documents serve essentially the same purpose.....

Hi to everybody who has responded to my original posting. Thank you for all your great comments. It was good to know that our service weren't the only ones who had been unaware of the reduction in the timescales for issueing renewal claims.
It may be that you are all unaware now that the timescale has been increased again! We have been advised by DBC staff in Blackpool, that they are now issueing renewal packs at 20 weeks!
Seems they can change their minds at the drop of a Santa hat, without consultation.
However, I don't meant to be flippant. I am delighted they have increased the timescales. It can only be benefitcial to everyone, especially the advice giving sector.
Merry Christmas/greetings of the season to you all.

Hello to all,

I am slightly happy that I am tucked away safely behind my computer screen as I type these next words.

The PDCS at Bristol advised a variety of invitees/advisers in the South West to their annual open day, the reduction from 6 to 3 months for renewals for DLA was announced. (At this point I beg for mercy as I thought this was being announced throughout the country at similar events - don't hate me).

You are all awaiting the awe inspiring reason behind their thinking.....
If I remember rightly we were told that as Bristol only deal with new claims - which they hang on to for 6 months or so ('case manage') before being handed over to Blackpool - renewal packs were being sent out by Blackpool whilst Bristol still had 'ownership' of the cases!!!!!

I think it is fair to say we were all confused by the logic and aghast at the implications for clients so I am glad at least this has been lengthened.

I promise if I ever learn anything new, ever again you will be the first to know.

Chaos

In the interests of clarity....our understanding following correspondence with the DCS external relations team is that the drop to 20 weeks took effect from Sept 2009, and there is still an intention to further reduce the renewal lead in time to 14 weeks by the end of 2010.

You can't help but wish they would make up their minds and stop confusing the issue. I suppose 14 weeks is better than 12, however, it is still going to put additional strain on already strained resources for ourselves and other Advice Providers. It would also help if EVERYBODY at DCS had the same information.
Thanks for your info though, because we hadn't heard this one yet!

The info we have is that they are reviewing the situation in spring (so could be sooner than we would like) to decide whether to drop the time limit for renewals at that point - they will also decide whether to roll out the piloted shortened renewal claim forms and some other processess aimed to speed up the renewal forms including collecting more info using the telephone.

I can feel the deep joy engendered by this news.....

I think I want to look for a new job! I can't take all these glad tidings. Who are these people liasing with or does someone just get out of bed on the wrong side one morning and decide 'Ok, what can I stir up to make life more complicated for the world today?'
For the life of me I cannot understand why the DCS would think it will be easier for them to adminiser and process renewal forms over a much shortened time and they definately havenot thought of the impact on the advice giving services.