Discussion archive

Top Housing Benefit & Council Tax Benefit topic #6769

Subject: "Claiming HB on a house that he has sold." First topic | Last topic
Herbert
                              

Welfare Rights Coordinator, Broadway London
Member since
26th Jan 2007

Claiming HB on a house that he has sold.
Thu 26-Jun-08 10:35 AM

I have a client who wants to sell his house because he can't cope with his debts. It all seems rather dubious - he is selling to an estate agency that have said that they will then let him rent the house off of them.
They are witholding six months rent from the money they pay him and calling it rent paid in advance. Aside from the morality of this (he is a vulnerable man with mental health problems) could this be classed as a contrived tenancy? It could be seen as a sale of the house with intent to then claim HB.
Also, would there be an issue around deprivation of capital? He is selling due to his debts but has not been compelled to by re-possession or bailiifs. He says that all of the proceeds of the sale will be paid out to get rid of his debts, but will this be seen as deprivation?
Thanks

  

Top      

Replies to this topic
RE: Claiming HB on a house that he has sold., bensup, 26th Jun 2008, #1
RE: Claiming HB on a house that he has sold., nevip, 26th Jun 2008, #2
      RE: Claiming HB on a house that he has sold., nevip, 26th Jun 2008, #3
           RE: Claiming HB on a house that he has sold., bensup, 26th Jun 2008, #4
RE: Claiming HB on a house that he has sold., jutucker, 26th Jun 2008, #5
RE: Claiming HB on a house that he has sold., Herbert, 26th Jun 2008, #6
      RE: Claiming HB on a house that he has sold., Derek, 26th Jun 2008, #7
           RE: Claiming HB on a house that he has sold., claire hodgson, 30th Jun 2008, #8

bensup
                              

Benefits Supervisor, Barrow-in-Furness, Cumbria Citizens Advice Bureau
Member since
24th May 2004

RE: Claiming HB on a house that he has sold.
Thu 26-Jun-08 11:31 AM

A good starting point for you would be to have a look at page 182 - 183 of CPAG "People treated as not liable to pay rent" bullet point 12 and take it from there.


  

Top      

nevip
                              

welfare rights adviser, sefton metropolitan borough council, liverpool.
Member since
22nd Jan 2004

RE: Claiming HB on a house that he has sold.
Thu 26-Jun-08 11:49 AM

However, see reg 2(1) of the HB Regs for the definition of owner as a “person being entitled to dispose of the fee simple”. So if a person is a leaseholder and has no power or right to sell the freehold then he is not an owner for the purposes of HB. See the commentary to the reg and to reg 9(2)(h) for a good discussion of the case law as it is not as simple as might first appear.

However, I think he is going to hit huge problems with contrivance/deprivation issues anyway and if I were he I would think very, very carefully before doing this. I would advise him to see a debt caseworker at his local CAB before doing anything.

  

Top      

nevip
                              

welfare rights adviser, sefton metropolitan borough council, liverpool.
Member since
22nd Jan 2004

RE: Claiming HB on a house that he has sold.
Thu 26-Jun-08 12:10 PM

I overlooked the fact that reg 9(1)(h) was amended effective from October 2007 to bring leaseholders with long tenancies (leases of more than 21 years) into frame, so he might be caught by that.

  

Top      

bensup
                              

Benefits Supervisor, Barrow-in-Furness, Cumbria Citizens Advice Bureau
Member since
24th May 2004

RE: Claiming HB on a house that he has sold.
Thu 26-Jun-08 12:17 PM

I agree with Paul here and should have said this in the first place - i would strongly advise your client to go to CAB for debt advice, especially as he has mental health problems, there could be a really simple solution to his problems that may not mean he has to sell the property.

  

Top      

jutucker
                              

Welfare Benefits Adviser, Shelter Cymru
Member since
30th Apr 2008

RE: Claiming HB on a house that he has sold.
Thu 26-Jun-08 12:27 PM

See also CD CH 3450 2006, reported as R(H)6/07.

I think this will be very relevant in your client's case regarding the sale of his house.

  

Top      

Herbert
                              

Welfare Rights Coordinator, Broadway London
Member since
26th Jan 2007

RE: Claiming HB on a house that he has sold.
Thu 26-Jun-08 12:32 PM

Thanks for your help with this. He is at the moment seeing a debt worker and I have asked them to see if they can find out how pressing was his need to sell the house.
Not related really, but it is also of concern what will happen to him when his tenancy runs out in a years time. I'd wager it won't be renewed and the estate agents will have got a bargain house from him.

  

Top      

Derek
                              

CAB Adviser, Esher CAB
Member since
09th Mar 2004

RE: Claiming HB on a house that he has sold.
Thu 26-Jun-08 07:02 PM

Herbert - your last point. Yes, there have been quite a lot of cases where firms or individuals have bought & rented back a property - always on a shorthold tenancy of 6 or 12 months. The tenant then has no security whatever, has sold the house at what is often an undervalue and ends up homeless.

He should be advised in the strongest terms not to go ahead with this.
There must be a better solution to his debt problems.

  

Top      

claire hodgson
                              

Solicitor, Askews Solicitors, Thornaby, Stockton on Tees
Member since
17th May 2005

RE: Claiming HB on a house that he has sold.
Mon 30-Jun-08 11:00 AM

at least he's had the sense to ask before going through with it.

i have had some success, when consulted AFTER the sale, on getting HB for clients, where the client has been able to show mahoosive sized debts and to show the money going out to pay those debts....

but it's a struggle, and whislt I can understand selling your house to pay your debts off, i don't understand why they can't do it normally at a proper market value, rather than the massive undervalue these "companies" offer.

i can feel myself going into rant mode....

  

Top      

Top Housing Benefit & Council Tax Benefit topic #6769First topic | Last topic