Discussion archive

Top Other benefits topic #401

Subject: "Social Fund Funeral payment" First topic | Last topic
salma
                              

Trainee Solicitor, Welfare Benefits Specialist,, Blackburn Citizens Advice Bureau
Member since
16th Feb 2005

Social Fund Funeral payment
Thu 31-Mar-05 08:59 PM

Hi

I need some help! has anyone come across this scomissioners decision....R(SB)2/87 and CIS/5119? If you have please reply and let me know. I have an appeal next week regarding social fund funeral payments, and these two decisions actually go into the meaning of estranged in relation to claiming funeral payments.

need a good argument for client who has applied for a funeral payment for sons(deceased) funeral expenses. It has come to light that clients father is also an immediate member who does not recieve a benefit which would qualify him for a funeral payment, and that he was not setranged from decesed. I want to argue that he was estranged so the above comissioners decisions could be helpful! Any other ideas please let me know.

thanks

  

Top      

Replies to this topic
RE: Social Fund Funeral payment, shawn, 31st Mar 2005, #1
RE: Social Fund Funeral payment, KieranLynch, 01st Apr 2005, #2
RE: Social Fund Funeral payment, salma, 01st Apr 2005, #3
      RE: Social Fund Funeral payment, ken, 01st Apr 2005, #4
           RE: Social Fund Funeral payment, KieranLynch, 04th Apr 2005, #5
           RE: Social Fund Funeral payment, Shabir, 05th Apr 2005, #6
           RE: Social Fund Funeral payment, salma, 07th Apr 2005, #7

shawn
                              

Charter member

RE: Social Fund Funeral payment
Thu 31-Mar-05 10:03 PM

R(SB)2/87 is available from the 'cds on rightsnet' swopshop page @

http://www.rightsnet.org.uk/cgi-bin/publisher/display.cgi?1138-3104-29493+swopshop

  

Top      

KieranLynch
                              

Welfare Rights Unit, Barnet, LOndon
Member since
04th Feb 2004

RE: Social Fund Funeral payment
Fri 01-Apr-05 10:49 AM

I may be missing some of the family connections, but presumably your client's father must therefore be the grandfather of the deceased.

A grandparent is not a close relative for funeral payment purposes- Reg 3(1)SFM&FE Regs

Payment should not be refused under regs 7(3)&(4)because of the existence of a grandparent.

  

Top      

salma
                              

Trainee Solicitor, Welfare Benefits Specialist,, Blackburn Citizens Advice Bureau
Member since
16th Feb 2005

RE: Social Fund Funeral payment
Fri 01-Apr-05 11:17 AM

sorry
i will explain a bit better what the exact scenario is here.

my client (the mother of the deceased) has been refused entitlement to a funeral payment towards the cost of her late son's funeral as there is a another immediate faniliy memeber who does not recieve a benefit which would qualify him for a funeral payment. The DWP are also saying that the other immediate faniliy member (which is the father) was not estranged from the deceased.

I want to argue that the deceased WAS estranged from his father. thats why i want to get hold of those 2 decisions in case their is something stated in those decisions that is relevant to my case.

any ideas???

  

Top      

ken
                              

Charter member

RE: Social Fund Funeral payment
Fri 01-Apr-05 11:33 AM

Hi salma,

Could you perhaps confirm the exact reference number of the second decision you refer to in your original posting - CIS/5119/??

  

Top      

KieranLynch
                              

Welfare Rights Unit, Barnet, LOndon
Member since
04th Feb 2004

RE: Social Fund Funeral payment
Mon 04-Apr-05 02:09 PM

Here is R(SB)2/87: Stolen from Ferret's wonderful CD rom

R(SB) 2/87
10.6.86
SUPPLEMENTARY BENEFIT
Relevant Education-meaning of "person" for the purposes of regulation 11(c) and (d) of the Conditions of Entitlement Regulations.
The claimant was living away from and estranged from his parents and in the care of a local authority. He was refused supplementary benefit on the grounds that he was treated as receiving relevant education and did not satisfy any of the conditions of regulation 11 of the Conditions of Entitlement Regulations under which persons so treated are entitled to benefit. On appeal the tribunal concluded that the word "person" in regulation 11(d) of those regulations means an individual and not a local authority or similar organisation and decided the application of that regulation by reference only to the arrangements between the claimant and his natural parents. The appeal was allowed. The adjudication officer appealed to a Social Security Commissioner.
Held that:
the word "person" in regulation 11(c) and (d) of the Supplementary Benefit (Conditions of Entitlement) Regulations refers only to a natural person and not a corporate or unincorporate body such as a local authority (paragraph 8).
The appeal was dismissed.
1. For the reasons hereinafter appearing, the decision of the social security appeal tribunal given on 5 July 1985 is not erroneous in point of law, and accordingly this appeal fails.
2. This is an appeal by the adjudication officer, brought with my leave, against the decision of the social security appeal tribunal of 5 July 1985.
3. On 30 May 1985 the adjudication officer decided that the claimant was not entitled to supplementary benefit because he fell to be treated as receiving "relevant" education and did not satisfy any of the conditions whereby he might escape disentitlement by reason of that status. On 11 June 1985 the claimant appealed to the tribunal, who in the event allowed the appeal. The tribunal made the following findings of fact:-
"1. Appellant agreed facts at paras 1 and 2 of AT2.
2. He was in full time relevant education until 12/5/85.
3. The terminal date within the regulation is the first Monday in September 1985.
4. Appellant is estranged from his parents and there is no other person acting in their place."
The tribunal gave as the reasons for their decision the following:-
"Reg 11 of the Conditions of Entitlement considered.
The reference in 11(c) and (d) is to a person and not to any body or other authority (e.g. local authority). Although there is a voluntary care order in respect of the appellant, the tribunal have interpreted 11(c) and (d) strictly i.e. person means an individual not a local authority, or similar organization."
4. Section 6 of the Supplementary Benefits Act 1976 provides, so far as material, as follows:-
"(1) .....
(2) A person who has not attained the age of 19 and is receiving relevant education shall not be entitled to supplementary benefit except in prescribed circumstances.
(3) Regulations may make provision as to the circumstances in which a person is or is not to be treated for the purposes of the preceding subsection as receiving relevant education; and in this section "relevant education" means full-time education by attendance at an establishment recognised by the Secretary of State as being, or as comparable to, a college or school."
It is not in dispute in this case that the claimant was to be treated as receiving "relevant education" up to and including 2 September 1985 by virtue of the provisions of the Supplementary Benefit (Conditions of Entitlement) Regulations 1981 . Accordingly, the question at issue is whether or not the claimant can escape the disentitling provisions of section 6(2) by resort to any prescribed circumstances. The relevant regulation on which he relies is regulation 11 of the Conditions of Entitlement Regulations, which, so far as is relevant to the present issue, provides as follows:-
"11. A claimant who is treated as receiving relevant education whose resources are insufficient to meet his requirements shall be entitled to supplementary benefit if he is a person to whom one or more of the following paragraphs apply:-
(a) .....
(b) .....
(c) he has no parent and there is no person acting in the place of his parent;
(d) he is living away from and is estranged from his parents and any person acting in the place of his parents
(e) ....."
5. It is not in dispute that the claimant has parents, and accordingly on any footing regulation 11(c) can have no application. It is accepted that the claimant was at the relevant time "living away from" his parents, and the tribunal made a specific finding that he was estranged from them.
6. But, in order to satisfy the provisions of regulation 11(d) the claimant also had to establish that he was living away from and was estranged from "any person acting in the place of his parents". Now, in the present case, the claimant was at the relevant time the subject of a voluntary care order. In other words, the local authority stood in loco parentis in relation to him. However, the tribunal interpreted the word "person" where it appears in regulation 11(d) (and for that matter in regulation 11(c)) as referring to an individual (i.e. a natural person), and not to a body corporate or unincorporate, such as a local authority.
7. Under the Interpretation Act 1978, Schedule 1 the word "person" is defined as including "a body of persons corporate or unincorporate". And section 5 of the Act provides as follows:-
"In any Act, unless the contrary intention appears , words and expressions listed in Schedule 1 to this Act are to be construed according to that Schedule."
Section 23(1) stipulates that:
"The provisions of this Act ....... apply, so far as applicable and unless the contrary intention appears, to subordinate legislation made after the commencement of this Act.....",
and section 21 defines "subordinate legislation" as meaning "Orders in Council, orders, rules, regulations, schemes, warrants, bylaws and other instruments made or to be made under any Act."
Accordingly, prima facie the word "person", where it appears in the regulation, is to be construed as including a body corporate or unincorporate, which manifestly takes in a local authority.
8. It follows that the question that has to be determined is whether the word "person" in regulation 11(d), or, for that matter, in regulation 11(c), is to have its prima facie meaning, so as to include a local authority or whether the context dictates that it shall be more narrowly construed as meaning simply an individual or natural person, with the necessary consequence that a local authority is excluded. Now, a body of persons, corporate or unincorporate, is a metaphysical concept; it cannot be seen or touched. It has no physical identity. In contrast a natural person i.e., a human being, has a physical existence. He must be geographically located somewhere and is able to establish human relationships, cordial or antagonistic, as the case may be, with other natural person. In my judgment, it would be wholly artificial to attribute to a body corporate or unincorporate any physical presence or any ability to respond to or act as the focus of human emotion. Accordingly, where regulation 11(d) speaks of the claimant "living away from and being estranged from his parents" and also "any person acting in the place of his parents" the legislature had in mind a natural person, and not a body corporate or unincorporate. In the present case, there is no sensible way in which the claimant could be regarded as living away from or, for that matter, with the local authority. The local authority, being a metaphysical concept, cannot live anywhere. Nor is it a proper use of language to regard a local authority as being capable of being the object or instrument of estrangement, with its connotation of emotional disharmony. Accordingly, the tribunal were right, in my judgment, to confine the word person to an individual. What the tribunal had to consider, then, was whether the claimant was living away from and estranged from his parents, simpliciter. As explained above, it was accepted that the claimant was living away from his parents; the only thing that remained for the tribunal was to determine whether he was also estranged from them, and they made a positive finding that he was.
9. It follows from this that the tribunal did not err in point of law, and I therefore dismiss this appeal.
(Signed) D. G. Rice
Commissioner

  

Top      

Shabir
                              

Prinipal Policy Officer, Blackburn with Darwen BC
Member since
18th Feb 2004

RE: Social Fund Funeral payment
Tue 05-Apr-05 03:13 PM

Salma

The issue of "estrangement" is one of fact - either your client's son's father was estranged from your client's son or not - note that it is the immediate family member who needs to be estranged with the deceased rather than the other way round - estrangment can be one-way.

Hope this helps.

  

Top      

salma
                              

Trainee Solicitor, Welfare Benefits Specialist,, Blackburn Citizens Advice Bureau
Member since
16th Feb 2005

RE: Social Fund Funeral payment
Thu 07-Apr-05 11:21 AM

HI

the correct reference is CIS/5119/97

THANKS

  

Top      

Top Other benefits topic #401First topic | Last topic