Is there anything to stop local coucillors from claiming WTC with their duties as a councillor counting as the remunerative work? Reg 4(3) of the EMR regs refers to the hours as an officeholder counting and I can't see any specific exclusion of councillors. Have I missed anything?

Talking off the top of my head here, 'cos i don't know and havn't looked it up but, is a councillor in remunerative work or are they volunteers who get expenses?

I don't know either, but won't the test be whether they are liable for tax and NI (either on a payroll or self-employed)? If they are not, then they are almost certainly volunteers getting expenses and I don't see how this could count as remunerative work.

CPAG handbook: What counts as earnings - If you are a local councillor, travelling expenses and subsistence payments are (and basic allowances may be) ignored as expenses wholly, exclusivley and necessarily incured in your work.

Again CPAG handbook: People treated as not in full time work - you or your partner are performing duties as a local authority councillor.

Not saying they can't claim WTC as i'm still unsure - i can't find anything (at this early hour!) which says yes or no!

Derek / bensup thanks for your replies.

I sort of instinctly thought that counsellor duties couldn't count but on looking it up it seems like they would count. In the WTC(EMR) regs as quoted, hours as an office holder are said to qualify and guidance on the revenue website says (concerning taxing councillors rather than credits councillors):

"For tax purposes council members and civic dignitaries are treated in the same way as any other individual who holds an office or is an employee. Emoluments received from an office or employment are chargeable to income tax under Schedule E. Tax is deducted under PAYE."

For IS councillors are 'treated' as not being in remunerative work, implying that they are in work really but this exclusion doesn't seem to be repeated in the WTC redgs. They also these days get, so I'm told, a considerable ammount of money in allowances and end up paying tax on a lot of it (ie they can't get in counted as expenses wholly incurred etc). So I'm thinking my insticts are wrong now but thought it must have arisen as an issue before. Anyone dealt with such a case before?

Hi given that there will be a lot of new councillors asking the same question was this ever resolved? WTC helpline says no reason why shouldn't claim.

Thanks

The councillor concerned decided not to claim in the end but I had advised him that in my opinion he was likely to qualify for the reasons in my last post.

Has anyone had any success with one of these? Has anyone any experience of a successful claim?

I have Three one who could claim 50+ and Dissability Element which would be a significant diference on current income.

Any Feedback Welcome

Regards Phil

We have a similar scenario for WTC, anyone to echo the above got any feedback, experience or advice.

Andy

Reg 6 of the Income Support regualtions is a deeming provision, in other words pretending that something is the case that isn't. What it is saying is that it doesn't matter how many hours a week you work as a councillor, we will pretend that it is less than 16. That means you are not automatically barred from income support but we will take your councillor's attendance fees into account as earnings as you are an office holder and pay PAYE and Class 1 national insurance contributions if you earn enough.

If there is no reverse deeming then, assuming the hours worked are right, why not tax credits?

I agree with Ariadne (assuming that she answers her retorical question in the positive!) and want to pose a marginally less rhetorical question myself: can anyone see any reason why a councillor cannot claim WTC and incapacity benefit simultaneously?

Thanks for that

I can say we have not any problems claimin WTC with Councillors in Stockport. We've been doing it for some time. There was an issue over the calculation of earnings for one year and a small OP. Other than that there was no problem claiming. (missed the original thread somehow.)

I agree that Councillors can claim WTC. The relevant question: are they in remunerative work/done in expectation of payment (the fourth condition of reg 4 WTC(EMA) regs)? Soc Security Legislation vol iv note says it echoes the FC test and expects it to be the same. In FC, councillors work was accepted as 'work'. I also agree with Damien above that whereas with IS, there is an exclusion treating Councillors as NOT in work, this is not the case with WTC.

And their income is treated same as in Tax. I got this from again, from the intro notes to TC (definition and calc of income) regs 2002 in SS legislation. Taken into account except with reasonable expenses deducted.

Does this clarify, or was it already obvious?

Yes, it absolutely clarifies it and I agree. My warped mind derives pleasure from the concept that someone can simultaneously be incapable of work and claim an in-work benefit (but that's my problem).

Thanks! it clarifes it, would have replied earlier but been on leave.