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Top Decision Making and Appeals topic #2620

Subject: "Providing copies of reported decisions" First topic | Last topic
iut044
                              

Advisor, South West Lancashire Independent Community Advice
Member since
15th May 2007

Providing copies of reported decisions
Fri 14-Mar-08 01:17 PM

Hi,

I have been told off by a chair of a tribunal for quoting from a reported decision but not providing a full copy of it.

I was under the impression from the CAB training course in Social Security appeals that only copies of unreported decisions had to be provied in full. Furthermore on the DWP website it says
http://www.dwp.gov.uk/advisers/ni260/furtherinfo/
"
Reported decisions
Reported decisions of the Commissioners deal with matters of important legal principles. They are given serial numbers, by the year, in the appropriate category of cases, for example R(U)4/84 indicated the fourth decision relating to Unemployment Benefit in 1984. Copies of all reported decisions are held by the Tribunals Service. Your local office should also have access. Libraries may also have copies. Copies of reported decisions are also available on the DWP website at www.dwp.gov.uk/advisers

Unreported decisions
Not all Commissioners’ decisions are reported. The unreported decisions are not deemed to have general significance in the social security field. They are identified only by the Commissioner’s file number, for example CIS/627/95.

The Tribunals Service do not keep copies of unreported decisions. If you intend to use one in arguing your case before the tribunal, you will need to get your own copy. These can be bought from the Office of the Social Security and Child Support Commissioners, see address. Reported and unreported decisions are also available from the Office of the Social Security and Child Support Commissioners’ website at www.osscsc.gov.uk."

I have quoted reported decisions in the past without copies of the full verdict and chairs have never maade any comment about my conduct.

Has anyone had experience of this in the past and if so should I now provide copies of unreported decision?

  

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Replies to this topic
RE: Providing copies of reported decisions, nevip, 14th Mar 2008, #1
RE: Providing copies of reported decisions, iut044, 14th Mar 2008, #2
      RE: Providing copies of reported decisions, nevip, 14th Mar 2008, #3
           RE: Providing copies of reported decisions, paul__moorhouse, 15th Mar 2008, #4
                RE: Providing copies of reported decisions, Ruth_T, 02nd Apr 2008, #5
                     RE: Providing copies of reported decisions, iut044, 02nd Apr 2008, #6
                          RE: Providing copies of reported decisions, Ruth_T, 02nd Apr 2008, #7
                               RE: Providing copies of reported decisions, claire hodgson, 03rd Apr 2008, #8
                                    RE: Providing copies of reported decisions, ariadne2, 03rd Apr 2008, #9

nevip
                              

welfare rights adviser, sefton metropolitan borough council, liverpool.
Member since
22nd Jan 2004

RE: Providing copies of reported decisions
Fri 14-Mar-08 02:38 PM

The LQPM is wrong. Judicial etiquette, as a matter of administrative procedure, requires the production of unreported decisions only, not reported ones.

However, care should be taken. A short quote, raised for the first time at the hearing, from a well known case, say Fairey or Moyna is ok. But quotes from lesser known or more obscure decisions, raised for the first time at the hearing, may call for the chair to adjourn to consider the point. This may not go down too well. In such a circumstance it would be better to raise the matter in written submission well in advance of the hearing.

  

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iut044
                              

Advisor, South West Lancashire Independent Community Advice
Member since
15th May 2007

RE: Providing copies of reported decisions
Fri 14-Mar-08 02:54 PM

Thanks for your help.

I quoted three lines from R(IB) 2/07. I sent the quotation in writing three days before the appeal.

On another note, how do I deal with the chair being wrong, I told her that copies of reported decisions did not have to be provided but she was adamant that she was correct. Do I write to the tribunial service? Or should I always provide copies of the decisions in future to avoid atogonising this paticular chair in the future?

  

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nevip
                              

welfare rights adviser, sefton metropolitan borough council, liverpool.
Member since
22nd Jan 2004

RE: Providing copies of reported decisions
Fri 14-Mar-08 03:49 PM

Not wanting to create a hostile relationship with a panel member is a relevant consideration as it may affect decisions for clients although any bias is obviously unlawful.

She is absolutely wrong and I personally would not change the way I work on this point just to avoid antagonizing a particular panel member. If she insists on this course of action then I would certainly make a complaint to the regional chair.

  

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paul__moorhouse
                              

welfare rights trainer and writer, freelance Bristol
Member since
14th Feb 2008

RE: Providing copies of reported decisions
Sat 15-Mar-08 12:38 PM

You could raise it as a general issue at your local Tribunal users' group.

That way the District Chair would become aware that it had happened, and confirm what correct practice is. Hopefully the minutes will be circulated to all judicial members and the Chair in question will become aware that she is in the wrong without having been named.

If she persists in this approach you can say then then say 'it is not necessary to provide copies of reported decisions and the District Chair confirmed this at the TUG meeting on XX/XX/2008'.

  

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Ruth_T
                              

Volunteer adviser, Corby Welfare Rights Advice Bureau
Member since
03rd May 2005

RE: Providing copies of reported decisions
Wed 02-Apr-08 04:42 PM

I've just found the following extract at the start of Bonner's 'Social Security Legislation 2007' in a chapter entitled 'Using this book, using legal authority and finding other sources of information' under the heading 'Using Commissioners' decisions at Tribunals and before the Commissioners':

Decision-makers and claimants are entitled to assume that tribunals and Commissioners have immediate access to reported decisions of the Commissioners and they need not provide copies, although it may sometimes be helpful to do so.

It goes on to say that if intending to rely on an unreported decision a copy will need to be provided to the tribunal and the other party before the hearing.

  

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iut044
                              

Advisor, South West Lancashire Independent Community Advice
Member since
15th May 2007

RE: Providing copies of reported decisions
Wed 02-Apr-08 06:06 PM

Ruth-T

It says that it may be sometimes helpful to supply copies of reported decisions, do you think they mean more obsucre ones by this comment?

  

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Ruth_T
                              

Volunteer adviser, Corby Welfare Rights Advice Bureau
Member since
03rd May 2005

RE: Providing copies of reported decisions
Wed 02-Apr-08 06:22 PM

I'm not sure that any reported CDs are 'obscure', because the criterion for reporting a decision is that they are considered to be of importance.

I would be guided by their date. All reported decisions since 1991 are available on the DWP website so are easily accessible. It's probably better to supply copies of pre-1991 reported decisions.

  

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claire hodgson
                              

Solicitor, Askews Solicitors, Thornaby, Stockton on Tees
Member since
17th May 2005

RE: Providing copies of reported decisions
Thu 03-Apr-08 06:48 AM

i take the view that if i'm going to rely on a CD, i'll try and provide a copy of it, whether its a "reported decision" or not... that's probably the lawyer in me; i also tend to think of submissions as being akin to a skeleton argument....i'll even quote from the statutes/regs as well, verbatim.

  

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ariadne2
                              

Welfare lawyer and social policy collator, Basingstoke CAB
Member since
13th Mar 2007

RE: Providing copies of reported decisions
Thu 03-Apr-08 01:39 PM

Not all Tribunal centres have full sets of CDs anyway - often they are very out of date. And the only set may be in another room where there is a very fraught child support case going on...

  

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