× Search rightsnet
Search options

Where

Benefit

Jurisdiction

Jurisdiction

From

to

Forum Home  →  Discussion  →  Universal credit administration  →  Thread

Holding off from claiming UC during MR/Appeal

Nan
forum member

Generalist team - Hammersmith & Fulham CAB

Send message

Total Posts: 155

Joined: 8 July 2010

Would welcome any thoughts.

We have recently gone into Full Service and are (as normal) seeing scores of people being found fit for work despite being unwell. Due to how long it takes to get UC into payment, we are considering whether some clients can hold off claiming UC and live off food vouchers/HB nil income award pending the ESA appeal process - especially when MR is done over the phone immediately and therefore client is quickly onto SSCS1 stage after it is (normally) refused.

We are hoping that the client would be allowed to be paid ESA pending appeal as normal and remain on ESA if there is a successful tribunal decision. Does anyone have any thoughts/experiences of this in action?

I am aware of benefits advance etc but these are also client who generally have very poor English/no computer skills and therefore would benefit from not being on UC for as long as possible. Also aware that no UC would run a risk if the tribunal was unsuccessful.

Thanks!

Rebecca

Daphne
Administrator

rightsnet writer / editor

Send message

Total Posts: 3537

Joined: 14 March 2014

hi rebecca

You shouldn’t run a risk with no UC if tribunal unsuccessful as provided you have med cert to cover MR period then once an appeal is registered the ESA will be backdated over that period. If the appeal is ultimately unsuccessful they will not be financially out of pocket - will just have to do the UC claim then.

In my opinion it sounds like a reasonable tactic especially if there is any PIP/DLA in payment. I can’t see any reason for them to not have ESA reinstated under reg 30 once the appeal is lodged.

but i haven’t tried it so be interesting if anyone out there has…

Nan
forum member

Generalist team - Hammersmith & Fulham CAB

Send message

Total Posts: 155

Joined: 8 July 2010

Update from same CAB on above query. A client who is appealing ESA stoppage in our full service UC area has received his Tribunal letter confirming the lodging of his appeal. He has chosen not to claim UC and has been living on food vouchers. The Tribunal letter and sick note were scanned to the DWP and we phoned up today to request reinstatement of ESA. We were told categorically that the system would only allow for a UC claim. ESA could NOT be reinstated. After our protests, the agent offered to send a paper form to make a new claim for ESA (which would definitely not be allowed in a UC area…)
We’re waiting for a call back from an ESA team manager but would be grateful if anyone else in a full service UC area has experienced a similar problem and has a solution. The client in question is vulnerable, on a methodone recovery programme and would struggle with the rigours - digital and otherwise - of UC. His medical evidence is quite strong and he has a strong chance of winning his appeal.

seand
forum member

Welfare rights officer - Wheatley Homes

Send message

Total Posts: 301

Joined: 16 June 2010

I know that CPAG Scotland have been looking at this same issue - DWP up here are also adamant that UC must be claimed in the same situation. I’ve pointed Henri Krishna at this to see if he has any update yet…

hkrishna
forum member

Welfare rights worker - CPAG in Scotland, Glasgow

Send message

Total Posts: 257

Joined: 17 June 2010

We’re in contact with advisers in the Inverness JCP area where full service was introduced in June. So far DWP are refusing to reinstate ESA pending appeal where no UC claimed during MR period (and is a first negative LCW determination). We’re engaged in an exchange of opinions with DWP Scotland and have directed them to the relevant legislation (reg 3(1)(j) SS (C&P) Regs,  Welfare Reform Act 2012 (Commencement No. 13, 14, 16, 19, 22, 23 and 24 and Transitional and Transitory Provisions (Modification)) Order 2016 SI no 596 and art 4 Welfare Reform Act 2012 (Commencement No. 14 And Transitional And Transitory Provisions) Order 2013 SI no 2846 - the final two of course being the commencement orders for those areas). Main point is that only new claims trigger transfer and as ESA pending appeal is a new award with no need to claim it does not pull the trigger (have also repeatedly checked art 9-22 of commencement order no.9 which also applies but nothing there triggers transfer due to a new award of ESA in these circumstances).

Awaiting a response and will let people know what they say when they say it.

SocSec
forum member

welfare benefits/citizens advice//ashfield

Send message

Total Posts: 277

Joined: 11 July 2013

slightly different , client appealing ESA, claimed UC pending appeal outcome,    was receiving help with mortgage costs under ESA, mortgage payments from dwp stopped and client has now been told that will have to wait 39 weeks for help with mortgage costs from start of UC claim. what’s going on here please

HB Anorak
forum member

Benefits consultant/trainer - hbanorak.co.uk, East London

Send message

Total Posts: 2895

Joined: 12 March 2013

This ought to cover it:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2014/1230/regulation/29

As long as UC was claimed within the month following the end of the ESA award, housing costs should transfer across without having to serve out a qualifying period.

hkrishna
forum member

Welfare rights worker - CPAG in Scotland, Glasgow

Send message

Total Posts: 257

Joined: 17 June 2010

See reg 29 UC(TP) Regs 2014 - where housing costs already being paid should not need to serve new waiting period. See ADM para M4180, which the ADM Memo on introduction of full service in your area will refer DMs to.

(beaten to it ...)

Nan
forum member

Generalist team - Hammersmith & Fulham CAB

Send message

Total Posts: 155

Joined: 8 July 2010

Success. After a number of calls someone in Belfast Benefit Centre finally agreed that there was no reason why client’s ESA could not be reinstated in UC full service area as he hasn’t claimed UC. Backdated ESA payments arrived in his account that evening although no written confirmation yet.
I’m confident we’ll have to go through the same time-consuming process for every client who tries to do this.

hkrishna
forum member

Welfare rights worker - CPAG in Scotland, Glasgow

Send message

Total Posts: 257

Joined: 17 June 2010

Nice one. Will advise clients to keep redialling until get through to Belfast (given the non-geographic nature of UC decision making).

hkrishna
forum member

Welfare rights worker - CPAG in Scotland, Glasgow

Send message

Total Posts: 257

Joined: 17 June 2010

Similar to what Phil Cole from Inverclyde posted in a separate thread, I’ve finally had a response from DWP on this issue:

‘Response from ESA Policy: The answer is that ESA(IR) can be re-awarded when an appeal is lodged, provided that the claimant has neither claimed “new style” JSA nor UC during the mandatory reconsideration period. Essentially this is because the claimant is not required to make a new claim in order for the ESA(IR) to be re-awarded. Since no new claim is required, a move to UC is not triggered for the person concerned.

I’d add one cautionary note, however. If that person had been receiving pass ported HB by virtue of their receiving ESA(IR), I think the claimant would need to keep that HB award live by supplying information that would enable the LA to assess on the basis of low income. If this didn’t happen and the HB award had ended, no new claim for HB would be permissible. Therefore the claimant might have to claim UC because that would be the only way of getting help with housing costs.’

Have thanked them for that but also asked what’s being done to make sure this works in practice?

Sally63
forum member

Generalist Adviser, Southwark Citizens Advice Bureau

Send message

Total Posts: 177

Joined: 21 January 2016

This works for us in a London full service area. We have always given the client options. Since they won’t get UC for 5/6 weeks even if they do claim—by that time they can be back on ESA pending appeal.

no money for more than a month whatever they do.