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Aids and appliances for preparing food and taking nutrition

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Mike Hughes
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Indeed, a strange regulation. A few people will resist aids and appliances but generally not.

Paul_Treloar_AgeUK
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nevip - 08 April 2016 12:32 PM
Mike Hughes - 07 April 2016 02:03 PM

Yes, I don’t see that interpretation at all. It starts from an assumption that microwaves are only for ready meals or pre-prepared meals. That assumption strikes me as wholly incorrect.

I agee.  There is plenty of DLA case law which confirms that a microwave can be taken into account providing that fresh ingredients are used.  Thus it is no surprise to see its incorporation into PIP.  Again, the test is the use of fresh ingredients.

And just like magic, up pops a UT decision confirming exactly that (again)...

CPIP/1418/2015 (my emphasis)

Activity 1 - preparing food

The First-tier Tribunal had found that the claimant had ‘significant difficulties in cutting up food’ yet found he could use a microwave to cook a simple meal and, further, that he would have problems taking a hot tray out of a conventional oven with just one hand.

Judge Gray highlighted that the definition of ‘to cook food’ as defined in the schedule of the Social Security (Personal Independence Payment) Regulations 2013 (the Regulations) is to ‘heat food at or above waist height’ and therefore the use of an oven is not necessary. Additionally, the reference to being able to cook at simple meal using a microwave in descriptor 1c did not refer to the heating of ready prepared microwave meals - it was still necessary for the claimant to cut up and prepare fresh ingredients. In this case the claimant was unable to do so and therefore he met descriptor 1e - ‘needs supervision or assistance to be able to either prepare or cook a simple meal’ - which scored him four points.

flair
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Slightly different question on same Activities. I have a client who has been awarded 2pts under Activity 1(b) as he cannot cut up food due to lack of grip/strength in one hand, and it is accepted he needs an aid/appliance - in reality he buys pre chopped food to cook.
However 0 points have been awarded for Descriptor 2 where the Definition of ‘Take Nutrition’ includes the cutting up of food and so 2(b)(i) or (iii) must also apply? I’m just wondering if there is any scenario where this wouldn’t be the case, as it seems a little too straightforward to argue?
Thanks Greg

Mike Hughes
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I get stuff like this all the time. It’s sadly what the MR was born for e.g. clt. uses a rail for toileting. It gets counted. Uses same rail for washing. It doesn’t count. No accounting for people not paying attention.

J.Mckendrick
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What If?: Serious Scientific Answers to Absurd Hypothetical Questions

The reason microwaves don’t cook evenly comes straight from physics. When you continuously feed waves into a space—which is what microwaves do—you’ll often have some “dead” spots:

In two dimensions, you get a similar but more complicated pattern.
These dead spots are the reason microwaves are designed with rotating platters—the idea is that each part of the food will pass through at least one hot spot. Microwave designers use a lot of tricks to try to vary the pattern to minimize dead spots, but no one does it perfectly; all microwaves will heat at least a little bit unevenly.

Can a microwave always be relied upon to cook food properly, safely and repeatedly etc?

[ Edited: 31 May 2016 at 08:48 pm by J.Mckendrick ]
John Birks
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2a applies to C not M.

Tom H
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J.Mckendrick - 31 May 2016 08:33 PM

Microwave designers use a lot of tricks to try to vary the pattern to minimize dead spots

I wonder if they know about my trick which is to put the food back in for another 30 seconds.

Mike Hughes
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The reasons microwaves don’t cook evenly is far more complex than that. It relates to microwaves themselves; the geometry of the food; the ingredients (some absorb heat at different rates); the rate of rotation; strength of the convection and so on. However, all microwaves nowadays cook really well and improvements in the technology have concentrated on other functions.

The key thing to remember is that cooking “unevenly” is not the same as “uncooked”. Provided you turn or stir food part way through there’s no issue. The same principles apply to conventional ovens. There are flat spots and they are imperfect because so is food. However, people have this weird idea even after all these years that microwaves somehow cook food less well than a conventional oven. No, people do.

More relevant to using a microwave I think is the ability to press what can often be quite a tough button to open the hinged door and the sometimes stupid size of buttons and displays. The ability to maneuver inside the microwave or to set the rotating plate correctly after washing would also be relevant.

[ Edited: 1 Jun 2016 at 09:08 am by Mike Hughes ]
Emma B-G
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In reply to Flair’s post about a claimant awarded points for preparing food because of difficulty cutting, but not awarded points for taking nutrition:

Playing devil’s advocate, the context of Activity 1 includes raw ingredients while the context of Activity 2 assumes that the food in question is ready to be eaten. It’s generally more difficult to cut up raw ingredients than it is to cut up food in a meal which has already been prepared. e.g. chopping a raw potato or a whole onion is more difficult than cutting a boiled potato or a cooked piece of veg. So it’s possible that an individual could have difficulty cutting food to prepare a meal from scratch, but less difficulty with using a knife and fork a prepared meal.

I suppose many (most?) claimants in these circumstances could score under both activities, but if a claimant does have difficulty cutting prepared food on their plate this needs to be clearly stated and explained (with examples) as one doesn’t inevitably follow from the other.

[ Edited: 1 Jun 2016 at 11:25 am by Emma B-G ]
Mike Hughes
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Fair comment. Cutting up food could be broken down into multiple activities where one action doesn’t necessarily follow the other. For example,

- locating something to cut with.
- being able to pick it up.
- being able to grip. It doesn’t automatically follow that because you can pick up you can grip.
- being able to cut something soft.
- being able to cut something harder.
- being able to pick up the stuff you’ve cut and put it somewhere else like a pan.

I’m not convinced the distinction between raw ingredients and cooked food holds true. Perfectly possible to cook something like broccoli and yet still struggle to manipulate and/or cut it.

 

flair
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Thanks Emma and Mike,

I accept certain foods when cooked will be easier to cut e.g. most veg, potatoes etc. however other things can be just as difficult e.g a steak. I suppose as you say it is being specific with these in submission. Thanks again, Greg

J.Mckendrick
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Again 1B to 1D goes on about a ‘simple meal’ whilst 1F goes on about preparing and cooking ‘Food’ per say!

Is the difference that a simple meal is one plate full and preparing and cooking food could mean a multitude of different courses involving arranging different heats at different times, checking each course is properly cooked, able to do this safely, repeatedly and in a timely manner etc!

John Birks
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J.Mckendrick - 01 June 2016 01:22 PM

Again 1B to 1D goes on about a ‘simple meal’ whilst 1F goes on about preparing and cooking ‘Food’ per say!

Is the difference that a simple meal is one plate full and preparing and cooking food could mean a multitude of different courses involving arranging different heats at different times, checking each course is properly cooked, able to do this safely, repeatedly and in a timely manner etc!

No.

“cook” means heat food at or above waist height;

“simple meal” means a cooked one-course meal for one using fresh ingredients;

Food isn’t defined in the regulations as food is an ordinary everyday word.

Potato is a food. As is an egg. Or Baked Beans in tomato sauce.

To score 1f I would hope to demonstrate that a claimant could not prepare and cook food - for instance the inability to toast bread and heat baked beans - (food) as this would not be sufficient to meet the test of a ‘simple meal.’ Or even, perhaps, an inability to warm a pre-prepared simple meal like that from a specialised service.

I think that’s the difference.

 

 

J.Mckendrick
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Beans on toast is a classic example of a simple meal for one but is there any scope to argue that preparing and cooking ‘food’ is a much larger test for someone both physically and/or mentally!

John Birks
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J.Mckendrick - 01 June 2016 03:08 PM

Beans on toast is a classic example of a simple meal for one but is there any scope to argue that preparing and cooking ‘food’ is a much larger test for someone both physically and/or mentally!

I’m arguing that Beans on Toast is insufficient for a simple meal.

Neither are fresh for a start, both are pre-cooked.

Beans and toast are simply food.

However, if they were components of an Full English Breakfast then this would be sufficient to pass the test of a simple meal.