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Forum Home  →  Discussion  →  Work capability issues and ESA  →  Thread

Carton of liquid open or closed

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Mike Hughes
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Senior welfare rights officer - Salford City Council Welfare Rights Service

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Gareth Morgan - 05 October 2015 11:58 AM

There’s a Schroedinger’s cat argument here of course; how do you know the cartons full without opening it?

... certainly in the case of say a milk carton it would be because forming machines are designed to only top seal once the product intended for the carton has been inserted. It’s infallable :)

Can’t say I agree with the idea a carton could be open. Most definitions of a carton refer to it as an item sealed top and bottom so the tribunal assuming it to be closed are probably on safe ground.

Gareth Morgan
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An interesting Heisenberg mobility argument also arises.

You can know where a claimant is or you can know how fast they’re moving but not both.  Therefore it is impossible for an observer to know how far they can walk at any speed!

Gareth Morgan
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Mike Hughes - 05 October 2015 12:29 PM

forming machines are designed to only top seal once the product intended for the carton has been inserted.

Aha!  But what if the intended amount of product is not enough to fill it?

Mike Hughes
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I thought we’d established it merely has to have liquid in it. It won’t necessarily be full.

Anyway, the carton could be see through like those horriffic things you can get eggs in.

Gareth Morgan
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Pete C - 05 August 2015 05:09 PM

.... the exact wording of the descriptor specifically says ‘a carton full of liquid’ not ‘such as a carton full of liquid’ like it does for the infamous carboard box in 4c).

Mike Hughes
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Gareth Morgan - 06 October 2015 10:41 AM
Pete C - 05 August 2015 05:09 PM

.... the exact wording of the descriptor specifically says ‘a carton full of liquid’ not ‘such as a carton full of liquid’ like it does for the infamous carboard box in 4c).

My bad. Dang!!!

efloyd
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Hi,
I’ve tried to attach the tribunal’s written reasons but it just won’t work, so here is a snippet re: the carton being open or closed…

“there is nothing in the descriptor that says the container into which the drinks or drink are packaged does not have a lid and therefore the tribunal did not see any reason why Mr xxx could not lift a 1 litre carton of liquid because it could have a lid on.”

I’ll leave as that should anyone wish to comment…..

Thank you, Elaine

Edmund Shepherd
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