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Forum Home  →  Discussion  →  Universal credit administration  →  Thread

APAs and 3rd Party payments - experience so far

FIT Advisor
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Have 2 customers where we have APAs & 3rd Party deductions agreed. Both captured APA on first payment of UC but the first case, effective from 1st April has now had 3 payments of housing costs directly to rent account but no 3rd party deduction and we have just been advised first payment will be made on 13th August. As these are secured for tenants who are at risk of losing their homes this delay is not acceptable, arrears escalate court orders broken.

What is the experience of other providers?  I am also concerned about the ‘style’  of letters issued to confirm agreements, they seem to be getting amended on a regular basis although I will admit they seem to be improving in respect of the information provided.

I am surprised though given the fact that UC has been in place in the North West now for some time and we are now part of the rollout so you would have thought that by now the process would be much better.

Have found good response to any queries we make with the UC team who deal with the requests, hope that this continues as their caseload increases.

Rehousing Advice.
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We are getting some problems with APAs in our area. eg 8 weeks in arrears….... APA request agreed…... but tenant still paid .....


Agreed, staff helpful.

1964
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Deputy Manager, Reading Community Welfare Rights Unit

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Being really thick here I know- but what does APA stand for?

Rehousing Advice.
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Alternative Payment Arrangement.

If a housing payment is going direct to a tenant, then the landlord can ask for payments to go direct to the landlord if the tenant is 8 weeks plus in arrears.

1964
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Thanks Martin- knew about the 8 week in arrears rule but just couldn’t think what APA stood for…Most kind of you….

SarahJBatty
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sanwyp, what do you mean by you’re concerned about the ‘style’ of the APA letters to landlord?

I haven’t seen any yet but can ask to have a look

FIT Advisor
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The letters are not clear enough, although as I said they are improving.  Although you get agreement for APA & third party deductions the payments don’t start to come in around the same time. Our 1st case has a start of UC from 1st April but his first payment of UC was made in June and we did get the APA on from 1st April. The 3rd party deduction is still to be made - been advised 13th August, only after contacting UC Housing Team. 2nd case, UC claim made beginning of June, when I checked if he had been paid in July and we had missed securing APA on 1st payment was told that they were waiting on him supplying tenancy agreement before processing his claim. However, the statement we enclosed with APA application gave enough information and they agreed to process and APA was secured on 1st payment.  Our experience so far with our 2 UC customers is 4 letters for each. For any tenant who is in arrears this delay and how accounts are managed until payment received is a major problem.

SarahJBatty
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Yes very difficult for people whose home is already at risk due to level of arrears / advanced legal stage at point of UC claim. 

Apparently from August, third party payments are going onto the same payment system as APA (ie calendar monthly rather than 4 weekly) ... this may help?

Lots of contact needed with UC helpline from housing staff ....  wont be sustainable as numbers increase.

FIT Advisor
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Agree Sarah. We are getting a Rolls Royce service in terms of how the UC helpline responds at the moment. This must show that the number of UC claims that include housing costs must have been low and only now starting to increase or these issues would have been resolved by now.  I would like to see a sample of the letter that we are supposed to get alerting us to a tenant making a claim for UC which is supposed to give us the opportunity to raise concerns around vulnerability or arrears at an early stage.

BC Welfare Rights
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Have heard this from a neighbouring borough where UC has been going for some time and a homeless charity is struggling with it in general.

APA in place after tenant spent 2 months rent, direct payment of Housing Costs to private landlord. However, deductions are being made from Housing Costs for rent arrears to… you guessed it, the current landlord! So where is the money that is being deducted from payments to the landlord to pay the same landlord? No-one at UC can answer other than to say it is not a unique case and the team that deals with it are ‘not very good’ at updating the system.

Also, in 2 North West boroughs there is apparently an issue with UC refusing to pay Housing Costs (including APAs) when Tenancy Agreement with private landlord is not dated within last 6 months. Obviously landlord who is not receiving any rent is somewhat reluctant to issue a new Tenancy Agreement. So APAs applied for because of rent arrears but subsequent stalemate.

On the plus side the UC call centre teams are apparently super nice and friendly (if often unable to help and regularly don’t make promised call backs). They also apparently say that their computer system is rubbish.

1964
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Doesn’t bode well does it?

HB Anorak
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Billy Durrant - 22 July 2015 07:00 PM

APA in place after tenant spent 2 months rent, direct payment of Housing Costs to private landlord. However, deductions are being made from Housing Costs for rent arrears to… you guessed it, the current landlord! So where is the money that is being deducted from payments to the landlord to pay the same landlord?

It ought to be more money on top of the APA going forward: that is the nature of a third party deduction isn’t it?  They should be paying the current rent plus a bit off the arrears so that the claimant has the arrears deduction docked out of his/her living costs.  It makes no sense at all to deduct it from the money that was already going to the landlord in any case - that’s just like changing a twenty for two tenners and saying “look, we are giving you two tenners”.

FIT Advisor
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Update on first APA….after 3 payments April, May and June and still waiting on 3rd party deduction having been told it would be paid 13th August, letter today dated 27/7 advises UC APA due for May £00.00 to be paid 7th June

[ Edited: 30 Jul 2015 at 10:16 pm by FIT Advisor ]
SarahJBatty
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I saw some landlord APA letters this week. Thought the wording was clear but ref number was NINO and no name or address of tenant, so you have to be a detective to work out whose money it is. Okay at 15 cases . . .

Jac
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Our landlord letters now have a ref number - first part is NINO and second part is our tenancy ref number.

Jac
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Our landlord letters now have a ref number - first part is NINO and second part is our tenancy ref number.

FIT Advisor
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First letter advising of UC claim made is excellent, all the information is there, name, address, NINO & DOB and very clear in terms of communication. The payment one now has NINO without last letter and our tenant ref number but still think they need to improve the others as I indicated above. I am still waiting for the UC housing team to come back to me and tell me exactly what a letter dated 27/7 telling me payment for 1st - 31st May is £00.00 to be paid on 7th June means, when we have had a payment for April, May and June.

Benny Fitzpatrick
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We were told our tenancy ref number contained too many characters and their computer couldn’t handle it!!!!!

FIT Advisor
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benefit advice officer, three rivers housing association, co durham

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Our reference has a slash before the last 2 numbers…it doesn’t accommodate that.

zoeycorker
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very strangely - I have just been reading this thread and an email pops up about how to get more out of an APA.
see below….

Did you know that an APA managed payment can be paid at a rate higher than the Housing Costs Element where the DWP believe that it is in the claimant’s best interests to do so?
How to get more than the Housing Costs Element as an APA Managed Payment
Where a tenant on Universal Credit goes 2 months or more in arrears with their rent, the landlord can apply to the DWP for an APA managed payment. Once in place the DWP pay part of the claimant’s Universal Credit award to the landlord.
The default is for the landlord to receive an APA managed payment equal to the amount of the Housing Costs Element that is included when the claimant’s Universal Credit is assessed (ie the amount of the claimant’s gross rent less any ineligible services, Bedroom Tax Reduction, and/or non-dependant deductions where applicable).
The amount of the APA managed payment could be less than this when the Universal Credit award is less than the value of the Housing Costs Element - which can happen when the tenant has income, or maybe deductions.
BUT an APA managed payment can be paid at a rate higher than the Housing Costs Element where the DWP believe that it is in the claimant’s best interests to do so.
Several Registered Providers have used our standard letter – UCMP1 - and have been receiving APA managed payments that cover the tenant’s full gross rent even where there is a non-dependant deduction and/or Bedroom Tax reduction.
Why not give it a go? Please pass on to all relevant staff and let us know how you get on.

Morti
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If its useful please see - Reg 58(1) of the UC, PIP, JSA, and ESA (Claims & Payments) Regs 2013 regarding this….

Ruth A Rees
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Morti - 04 August 2015 12:33 PM

If its useful please see - Reg 58(1) of the UC, PIP, JSA, and ESA (Claims & Payments) Regs 2013 regarding this….

Where can I find this online please?  Tried googling and using Legislation.gov but without success.

Paul_Treloar_CPAG
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Ruth A Rees - 13 August 2015 03:10 PM
Morti - 04 August 2015 12:33 PM

If its useful please see - Reg 58(1) of the UC, PIP, JSA, and ESA (Claims & Payments) Regs 2013 regarding this….

Where can I find this online please?  Tried googling and using Legislation.gov but without success.

Payment to another person on the claimant’s behalf

FIT Advisor
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I would treat the opportunity with caution. To secure higher APAs without taking into consideration the fact that you will also secure 20% 3rd party deductions will cause hardship for many customers.  Previously we were happy to accept £3.70 a week. Now you are securing nearly £15 on single claims. We are a factoring this in when APA reduced by bedroom tax and advising on personal payment to be made and would monitor.

[ Edited: 14 Aug 2015 at 08:45 pm by FIT Advisor ]
Glenys
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sanwyp - 14 August 2015 08:41 PM

I would treat the opportunity with caution. To secure higher APAs without taking into consideration the fact that you will also secure 20% 3rd party deductions will cause hardship for many customers.  Previously we were happy to accept £3.70 a week. Now you are securing nearly £15 on single claims. We are a factoring this in when APA reduced by bedroom tax and advising on personal payment to be made and would monitor.

Surely better to go for the higher APA but not ask for a third party deduction?
Considering landlords have no say over the % rate of deduction you are right that 20% rate could well leave tenants in hardship - maybe even mean they go to high interest lenders to make up their rent payments.
Whereas increasing the APA can only help, because it’s only covering what the periodic rental liability is anyway.

SarahJBatty
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I think this opportunity for landlords does present a problem. How will DWP establish what is in the interests of the claimant and their family? Whilst in their interest to   not lose their home and not incur court fees from legal action, also surely in their interests to eat, heat home and meet other essential costs of living. Whilst rent due because of bedroom tax or non dep deduction may well be legally due it doesn’t make it affordable to the tenant. How many times a week are we advising people who simply can’t afford to pay these shortfalls. They may inevitably go through a period where they are unpaid while they try desperately to resolve the situation through downsizing, returning to work, securing relevant benefits etc. They may or may not end up sustaining the tenancy. To use this opportunity the landlord potentially puts the securing of rental income before the well being of tenants and therefore caution is definitely needed. Not saying I haven’t come across people who beg to have bedroom tax deducted from their benefits even though this not available under legacy benefits, but in many cases it would just leave them short of living money so equally likely to rely on high interest credit or food bank.

FIT Advisor
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We have two agreed APAs one from April the other from June both with confirmed 3rd party deductions and reassurance that on April case 3rd party payment would be released on 13th August. Email sent to check why no payment and got reply week later…..tenant has had full UC paid to him, we might get something in September if they get deductions set up.  Now chasing second case…... APAs ok apart from multiple letters and a review part way that could have ended claim but didn’t. It is a nightmare!