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Forum Home  →  Discussion  →  Decision making and appeals  →  Thread

tax credit late appeals; where to now ?

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SocSec
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I have a number of tax credit appeals that after 2 years of obfuscation by hmrc have now come up to decide if claimant has grounds for a late appeal. hmrc have suddenly written to say that due to the Rowland case the tribunal does not have a right of appeal and the tribunal must strike them out.  some tribunals appear to be accepting this. surely this cannot be the end of the line , most of my clienst have guge overpaymenst and it must be wrong that they do not have any opportunity of challenging hmrc, some of the appeals were arguably not late and some only a couple of weeks late !!!

Ros
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Hi SocSec - what’s the reference of the decision they’re referring to?

DaphneH
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i think this one -

http://www.rightsnet.org.uk/briefcase/summary/whether-appeal-against-tax-credit-decision-was-out-of-time

I have a similar case - directions notice says that the tribunal does not have any power itself to extend the time limit under rule 5(3)(a) - so if HMRC refuse to accept late appeal HMCTS cannot change the decision - just looking into the case and seeing if I have any argument

MNM
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Similar issue but slightly different.

I am seeking permission to appeal (UT1) against the tribunal striking out a late appeal.

The HMRC did not even raise issue of lateness (in submissions or even at the hearing) - the Judge at ftt out of nowhere identified appeal was 2 weeks late (over the 1 month time limit) citing Rowland from the case of JI v Commissioners and struck out appeal.

With advice and tips from rightsnet of course I sought permission from first tier to appeal which was refused. .

My case falls within a window of time after JI and before the Tax Credits (Late Appeals) Order 2014 came into force on 13 February 2013. (The Judge struck it out a mere 2 days before on 11 February).

In my grounds I highlighted the matter was of public interest as what happens to late appeals lodged and accepted by HMRC pre-dating 13 February 2014.

Lets see what happens!!!

 

 

SocSec
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cpag have given me some helpful advice, a/ ther is no reason why the amended tax credit rules re late appeals cannot be retropctively applied, i.e. the rule can be backdated to apply to ealier cases   b/ human rights issue, right to a hearing,

also check the fine print of hmrc as in one of mine they say my appeal was lodged in november 2012 and is therefore out of scope of amended rules, actually the appeal was lodged in april 2013 .
its a disgrace sa my cases have gone on for 2 years and at the last moment cpag spring this on us,  hope tribunal will take a robust approach to making sure appellants get justice

Peter Turville
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See Martin Williams (cpag) thread on this issue in the tax credits discussion forum for copies of HMRC stated policy (parliamentary answer) and their powers under the Tax management Act. my understanding is that HMRc powers under the TMA are discretionary so outside the jurisdiction of a tribunal to decide / exercise - but it would be helpful if I’m wrong!

SocSec
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Thanks Peter, another person at cpag has advsied me that although hmrc say its discretioanry a tribunal can make a decision on it, !!! if its a case witha right of appeal I would have thought that it does come within the jurisdiction of a tribunal as with other benefit late appeal decisions such as HB or IS etc if there is no right of appeal such as with DHP then a tribunal would not be able to get their mits on the case.

it does appear from the new rules that the appeal must be after april 2013 [though cpag tell me thats not neccesarilty the case !!!]

MNM
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That’s the problem I had SocSec, falling into a phase pre-April 2013. 

In the refusal Decision Notice to grant permission to appeal DTJ explained the Tribunal bound by Tax Credits (Late Appeals) Order which does not have retrospective effect beyond 1 April 2013 - therefore there was no error of law!! As there was supposedly no right to legal right to accept an appeal outside 1 month time limit (and within 13 months absolute limit). 

SocSec
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MNM,  I am afraid that I read the rules as per hmrc interpreation in your case, cpag suggested that their is nothing in the rules that says hmrc cannot go back beyond april 2013, but I think that as that date is clealry indicated in the Order it must be there for a reason and most tribunals will probably accept hmrc argument on these cases.  might still be a HR issue and if all else fails the Adjudicator might be interested in the process that hmrc have taken, in my cases up to 2 years of obfuscation and deceipt , I forget how many times I have been told that the case is with the appeals dept and I can expect the submission ‘shortly’, only to be told this wek that no submission will be prepared as the tribunal can’t hear the case. !!!  maybe your client’s MP can earn their crust and get hmrc to do the decent thing ,

Ros
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Here’s the thread on late appeals started by Martin -

http://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/5057/

MNM
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Thanks Ros


In my case the HMRC accepted the late appeal, acknowledged it and even prepared a submission. It went to appeal for determination on the entitlement and not the lateness.

The HMRC didn’t even make any reference to lateness being the issue. 

The HMRC didn’t seek any pre-hearing Directions.

No presenting officer turned up.

The Judge at FTT simply spotted it was 2 weeks late and struck it out citing JI. 

 

Paul_Treloar_CPAG
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MNM - 18 November 2014 01:49 PM

Thanks Ros


In my case the HMRC accepted the late appeal, acknowledged it and even prepared a submission. It went to appeal for determination on the entitlement and not the lateness.

The HMRC didn’t even make any reference to lateness being the issue. 

The HMRC didn’t seek any pre-hearing Directions.

No presenting officer turned up.

The Judge at FTT simply spotted it was 2 weeks late and struck it out citing JI. 

 

Have you lodged an application for leave to the Upper Tribunal? Our legal officer Mike is currently preparing a UT case (or cases) which will aim to tie up various loose ends related to late TC appeals, but as this will take some time, it’s important to safeguard appellants falling foul at this stage, in case this case is successful and the vexed question around pre-April 2013 appeals should be adjudicated upon by FtT’s in particular is properly resolved.

MNM
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Hi Paul,

I have lodged an appeal and filled UT1 last month - it has just been acknowledged.

My primary ground is my case has public importance to identify the position pre-April 2013.

Secondary grounds were JI was wrongly interpreted as well as Judge made lateness an issue when no-one else did. 

I will keep you updated with the progress.

SocSec
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I just had the smug satisfactoin of writing to tribual as hmrc have issued a supplemantary submission after the tribunal found my client does have right to appeal even though late. hmrc has sent a curt submission with the 2 main cases tacked to it to say that even though hmrc do accept that appeals after april 2013 can be admittde my client’s appeal was made in november 2012. I have the original letter from hmrc dated june 2103 confirming receipt of my client’s appeal on 04 June 2013, copy sent to tribunal asking that they now list the substantive appeal asap and a copy of the ‘late appeals order’ atatched to hopefully put some lead in the tribunal’s pencil.

[ Edited: 18 Nov 2014 at 02:40 pm by SocSec ]
Paul_Treloar_CPAG
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MNM - 18 November 2014 02:09 PM

Hi Paul,

I have lodged an appeal and filled UT1 last month - it has just been acknowledged.

My primary ground is my case has public importance to identify the position pre-April 2013.

Secondary grounds were JI was wrongly interpreted as well as Judge made lateness an issue when no-one else did. 

I will keep you updated with the progress.

Great stuff. We had a discussion this morning and are very aware of the need to update our information on late TC appeals, but this is the worst time of the year for us (due to Handbook especially), so please bear with us and we hope to have some updated guidance in due course.

And definitely interested to hear about how your case progresses as well.

SocSec
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re my previous post, hmrc just phoned me to say they have realised their error and the date of november 2012 is ” a typo error” they will send a further submission on the basis that the tibunal cannot here the case even after considering the late appeals order “because only hmrc has power to accept a late appeal”  so the tribunal still cannot here the case.  Is there a case for getting these megalomaniacs put away somewhere safe where they can do no harm,
def A psychopathological condition characterized by delusional fantasies of wealth, power, or omnipotence.