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Forum Home  →  Discussion  →  Work capability issues and ESA  →  Thread

ESA Work Programme and Mandatory Reconsiderations.

Sharon M
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Derbyshire County Council

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Sorry if this is simple, but I can’t seem to find an answer. I know if someone is appealing to be placed from the WRAG to Support Group they are no longer mandated to the Work Programme, but does this apply when they are at the mandatory reconsideration stage? My local DWP said it doesn’t and people can still mandated to WP while waiting for the outcome of a MR and that it’s only when they have a decision on this and move to appeal stage that it’s no longer mandatory. Is this right? I can’t seem to find a definitive answer.

benefitsadviser
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Hmm. I dont think its fair however that doesnt mean its not correct.

During an MR the client is still seen as having LCFW so it wouldnt surprise me.

The fact that the rules say that no mandatory work required once appeal actually logged with HMCTS suggests that this is the only way to be exempt.

You are right though : I cant find anything either

Welfare Rights Adviser
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On a related but relevant point - DWP guidance on when they should/should not refer to the work programme is just that - guidance, but it is important to remind decision makers that regulation 3 of the Employment and Support Allowance (Work Related Activity) Regulations 2011 stipulates that the secretary of state may (not must) require a person to undertake work related activity and regulation 3(4) ensures that that should only happen where it is reasonable to do so having regard to the claimant’s circumstances (which means they should consider the purpose of the specific WRA and whether it is appropriate in that claimant’s circumstances).

Paul_Treloar_CPAG
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Their guidance note I’ve seen does state “Claimants appealing a Work Capability Assessment (WCA) decision who have not already been referred to the WP;” are temporarily exempt (attached, para.37), but as noted above, they do have discretion more widely and they should properly exercise this.

Why on earth they don’t baffles me beyond belief and merely gives rise to a deep-rooted suspicion that they are following edicts from above to make blanket referrals regardless of any other extraneous reason.

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Sharon M
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Thank you all.

It’s the discretionary aspect of these regs that we have problems with and getting it stopped/deferred when people have been placed with a certain provider before we become aware. DWP are placing people with this provider and it seems once that happens getting them to back off is impossible. To be honest, getting them to leave people alone even when they have won an appeal and are in the Support Group is just as impossible.

Dan_Manville
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SharonM - 22 October 2014 10:16 AM

Thank you all.

It’s the discretionary aspect of these regs that we have problems with and getting it stopped/deferred when people have been placed with a certain provider before we become aware. DWP are placing people with this provider and it seems once that happens getting them to back off is impossible. To be honest, getting them to leave people alone even when they have won an appeal and are in the Support Group is just as impossible.

The WPPs work to a minimum contact requirement that is laid down in their contract; probably fortnightly. The WPP has no further information to indicate whether a client has appealed/sought MR so will roll with the fortnightly contacts.

There is no procedure to get someone out of WP once they’re in it.

If they get put into the Supprt Group JCP should issue a WP07b to the provider which should then stop all contact. guidance

I’m wondering which provider it is. There is one that is really bad at dealing with changes of circs and insists on sending Mandatory Activity Notices even when they cannot mandate any activity.

Sharon M
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DManville - 22 October 2014 11:26 AM
SharonM - 22 October 2014 10:16 AM

Thank you all.

It’s the discretionary aspect of these regs that we have problems with and getting it stopped/deferred when people have been placed with a certain provider before we become aware. DWP are placing people with this provider and it seems once that happens getting them to back off is impossible. To be honest, getting them to leave people alone even when they have won an appeal and are in the Support Group is just as impossible.

The WPPs work to a minimum contact requirement that is laid down in their contract; probably fortnightly. The WPP has no further information to indicate whether a client has appealed/sought MR so will roll with the fortnightly contacts.

There is no procedure to get someone out of WP once they’re in it.

If they get put into the Supprt Group JCP should issue a WP07b to the provider which should then stop all contact. guidance

I’m wondering which provider it is. There is one that is really bad at dealing with changes of circs and insists on sending Mandatory Activity Notices even when they cannot mandate any activity.


It begins with an A, ends with an E and has a 4 in the middle :).  We don’t have any problem with the other provider in our area. It’s continual problems with A4E, despite them having the required information. I don’t understand what’s in it for them to continually harass people who they have no mandate over. I’m wondering if it’s the way A4E pays it’s lower rung staff and they have some sort of targets for staff to contact people per week, because I don’t understand why they cling to people like this. I work in a mental health setting and it causes genuine distress.

We’ve contacted both A4E and the DWP in complaint over this, but we still get the same thing coming up again and again.

 

[ Edited: 22 Oct 2014 at 02:02 pm by Sharon M ]
benefitsadviser
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DManville said : There is no procedure to get someone out of WP once they’re in it.

I remember having a meeting with DWP about the ESA work program.

The guy giving the talk was genuinely insane : he believed the stuff he was coming out with.

All about “support, empowerment” etc etc. No grounding in reality with regard to what actually happens. Some work providers initially made no distinction between ESA and JSA for example

One offensive remark he said was that once the WP for ESA was set up then the claimants were “Locked in” Yes. “Locked in”

A colleague asked him and his fellow Jobcentre Plus cronies wether they (or indeed us) were “Locked in” with regard to their employment situation…......

We also asked that if we phoned in sick from work for a day we dont lose any pay, so why should someone who the department has already acknowledged has illnesses (and therefore a higher possibility of calling in sick) have weeks of sanctions under the same circumstances.

I support the WRAG concept of ESA but once it was made conditional and mandatory to engage in then we started to have the problems.

 

Sharon M
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oops, meant to edit previous post.