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Forum Home  →  Discussion  →  Work capability issues and ESA  →  Thread

Contribution based ESA and Carers Allowance

benefitsadviser
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Sunderland West Advice Project

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I have a question regarding the nature of NI contributions being paid while claiming Carers Allowance, and the effect of such contributions on new benefit claims.

I have a client who has been claiming CA for about 10 years and she has developed health issues.

She has been advised to claim ESA. She has had an income related claim accepted but they wont pay her as her husband earns £350 a week.

She has been told by JC+ that she cant claim a contribution based benefit (CBESA) as she has not met the last 2 tax years contribution condition.

Her NI has been paid while claiming CA for 10 years so surely this counts and therefore allow her to claim (CB)ESA ??

I cannot find anywhere that confirms NI contributions paid as a carer count as a full contribution for contribution based benefits

Have Jobcentre Plus got it wrong again?

Its Monday and my brain hurts, so any advice will be greatly appreciated.

PS , I have advised she must close CA claim to claim (CB)ESA due to overlap.

Thanks, as always

Victor
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Welfare Rights Officer, Stockport Council

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ESA regulation 8.
She does have to have actually paid contributions at some point in the past though.

benefitsadviser
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Tony : They own their own property and due to his 350 quid a week and her 60 quid a week CA then the carers premium/underlying entitlement makes no difference whatsoever unfortunately.

Even if in Support group with Carers premium their applicable is £202.40, and as they have over 400 quid a week coming in then i cant see the point.

I think the client will qualify for the support group of CBESA (if contribution conditions met : still dunno : ) which will pay £106 a week instead of £59.75.

Just trying to increase a bit of household income, once i suss out how to get my head around qualifying contribution conditions!

A dumbed down explanation of the regs would be nice :)

Maybe im onto summat. I could make a fortune with a book called “social security regs for dummies”

The DWP would pay me a fortune!

[ Edited: 9 Sep 2013 at 03:19 pm by benefitsadviser ]
Nicky
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If you have access to a disability rights handbook - 38th edition - from page 81 onwards should help you with the contribution conditions query.

benefitsadviser
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Thanks Nicky. Unfortunately we dont have the DR handbook, just the CPAG bible.

Just read page 890 and it reckons CA claimants will be credited with equal to lower earnings limit for each week CA in place.

As its been 10 years then i interpret this as a green light to claim CBESA, unless mistaken

Denise Cox
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As I understand it there are two contribution conditions that need to be satisfied for CB ESA, the first that the individual has in any one tax year paid 52X the LEL for that year plus the second, having the two years up to the April preceding the January that starts off the year in which the start date for ESA falls covered by contributions or credits. If this individual has for any year paid national insurance to satisfy the first condition then the credits for CA will satisfy the second condition and CB ESA will be due. With regard to the carers allowance I agree that the claim should stay in place, any contributory benefit will have priority so the CA may not be paid but the underlying entitlement can impact on other benefits and if the ESA stops for any reason then it is easier to get CA back into payment if the claim is still in place.

Jon (CANY)
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Have a look at CPAG p895-7 for the first and second contribution conditions, including the bit on p897 about when the 1st one can be ‘relaxed’ (which does not mean waived) for someone who’s been on CA.

It isn’t a very simple explanation, but I don’t think that is possible for c-based entitlement…

Tom H
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Paul, definitely keep the CA claim going.  If she’s put in the WRAG she’ll be time limited but can get contributory ESA for 40 weeks each year thereafter as long as she keeps her CA going (the CA will obviously be underlying for 40 weeks each year but that doesn’t matter).  Eg,

As Victor says, under Reg 8 ESA Regs, client is able to rely on her CA in order to use any tax year from her past to satisfy the 1st contribution condition (ie that you earned at least the LEL in each of at least 26 weeks in the tax year concerned).

Eg, she worked for 30 weeks in tax year 1994/95 (ie 6/4/94 - 5/4/95) and earned £75 p/w (the LEL in 94/95 was £57.  She would satisfy the 1st contribution condition for ESA using that year.

She claims CESA on 15/9/13 (this date falls in “benefit year” 2013 which runs from the 1st Sunday in January, ie 6/1/13 - 4/1/14).  So the two tax years relevant to the 1st and 2nd contribution conditions for ESA are 2010/11 and 2011/12.

She would satisfy the 2nd contribution condition if she has been receiving CA for at least 50 weeks in each of those tax years, which appears to be the case.  She doesn’t satisfy the 1st contribution condition in either of those years (ie 26 weeks x LEL as above) because she hasn’t recently worked.  However, Reg 8 allows her to use 1994/95.  Reg 8 is triggered by the fact the client was entitled to CA (including an underlying entitlement where necessary) in the tax year immediately prior to 2013, ie in tax year 2011/12.  She would only have had to be entitled to CA for a single week in order to gain the protection of Reg 8.

Consequently, she qualifies for CESA from 15/9/13.  However if she’s only put in WRAG her ESA is time-limited from 14/9/14.  She waits 85 days (12 weeks and a day) and reclaims CESA.  The new claim is made on 9/12/14 (ie, in benefit year 2014).  So the two tax years relevant to CESA are now 2012/13 and 2011/12. 

She kept her CA claim going in 2013 so can rely on Reg 8 ESA again which means she can rely on 1994/95 once again to satisfy the 1st contribution condition for the new ESA claim.  And she satisfies the 2nd contribution conditions because she got 50 x credits in 2011/12 due to CA and 50 x credits in 2012/13 because of a combination of CA and ESA receipt. 

And that situation continues potentially until her retirement.  And all because she continued claiming CA.  As Tony suggests, whilst there are often no apparent drawbacks to giving up CA, it can be a case of you missing it when it’s gone.

[ Edited: 11 Sep 2013 at 10:54 pm by Tom H ]
1964
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Bumping this old thread as I just want to ensure I’m not missing something obvious with a case of mine. Client was previously employed (for many years, full-time) and then became carer for disabled son. She has received CA for at least 5 years continuously. Has now become disabled herself. No entitlement to IR ESA due to other family income & capital. Claimed CB ESA on my advice, claim refused (insufficent NI during relevant years). I’ve requested MR on basis covered in this thread. We’re currently awaiting outcome but client says she spoke to DWP yesterday and was told decision remains unchanged.

Before I go steaming in, can anyone see anything I’ve missed here? On the presumption client provided accurate info when she made her claim I find it concerning that DWP seems unaware of Reg 8 etc. How many other carers are being refused CB ESA on a regular basis? Anyway, if anyone can see an enormous cowpat in my path please do shout before I make a complete dork of myself.

Edmund Shepherd
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Did you state the specific regulations? This is one of those queries that will need to be spelled out. Type it in size 22 and no sentences longer than four words.

Do you have any escalation numbers for your local Benefit centre? These can help.

I’m confident that the advice above is correct. I had to argue the case myself not so long ago and I was successful.

1964
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Thanks Edmund- that’s reassured me. Yes, I’ve quoted the regs so will hope that regardless of what client was apparently told yesterday someone will ultimately issue a sensible MR decision. If not will just have to bung in an appeal and hope the decision is revised at that stage.

1964
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Bumping again. Client received call from DM to the effect that they are right, we are wrong and MR decision will be negative.

Client has decided not to continue with it for various reasons but before I (reluctantly) put the case to bed, tell me again I’m right, someone, please…

Thanks in advance for any (and all) reassurance. I need it for the next time I encounter a client in this position.

Edmund Shepherd
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I should have a look at the MRN and see whether any consideration has been given to your points. The rules are quite clear, so I would be interested to learn why this decision was made in this case.

1964
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Wish I could. The client apparently withdrew the MR during the phone call with the DM and is adamant she doesn’t want to continue with the dispute.

Ah well. Thanks for the reassurance Edmund. I shall hope for a proper outcome next time.