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New legacy claims in Full Service

Barbara Knight
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Leorn Welfare Rights Training Services, Derby

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Any ideas?
In a training room discussion on the need for new Tax Credit claims until 2018 for those with 3 or more children (instead of UC), a comment was made regarding other legacy benefits. If you can claim Child Tax Credits won’t that mean HB, JSA etc are still there for this small group who can’t claim UC in Full Service areas?
One local authority has already confirmed that position in a meeting with 2 of the training attendees and the DWP also present didn’t disagree.
Does anyone know if this is technically possible?

Paul_Treloar_AgeUK
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Information and advice resources - Age UK

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As far as I know, that’s the case Barbara, simply because Universal Credit IT cannot cope with restricting payments to 2-children currently.

HB Anorak
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Article 7 of the No 23 Order, which is extended to all new full service areas by a local “modification” order, preserves the ability to claim IS, HB and Tax Credits in a few situations, including where DWP has declined to accept UC claims from a class of person under Reg 4 of the UC Transitional Provisions Regs 2014.  Assuming that people with more than two children will be kept out of UC by that mechanism, IS, HB and Tax Credit claims are automatically enabled.

JSA(ib) and ESA(ir) are more difficult because these are abolished as soon as you claim either of them: see for example Article 4(2)(a) of the No 9 Order, which was partly replicated and partly extended to each new live service area by the appropriate commencement order for each such area.  These abolition provisions are then modified when the full service hits town so that they no longer apply only to people who satisfy the gateway conditions.  What I have not found is anything that preserves the existence of JSA(ib) and ESA(ir) in a case where the claimant is prevented from claiming UC under TP Reg 4: is there anything that does that?  Beware: if you begin your search with a full service modification order (eg 2016/963) be prepared to embark on a long and tortuous journey through legislation.gov.uk footnotes before eventually losing the will to live ... I gave up after following a third consecutive cross-reference without ever reaching the source.

HB Anorak
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An update on this: someone has very kindly drawn my attention to Article 5A of the No 9 Order which prevents the abolition of means tested JSA and ESA where DWP declines to accept a UC claim under Reg 4 of the Transitional Provisions Regs.  Article 5A of the No 9 Order applies both to Article 4(2)(a) of the No 9 Order and also to any look-alike provisions doing the same job in local commencement orders.  You live and learn!

I have also been reminded that the consequential amendments required by the two-child limit include a new provision in Article 7 of the No 23 Order allowing claims for IS, HB and TC by families with more than two children without them having to wait for their UC claim to be rejected first.

I think that’s a comprehensive answer to the OP, provided courtesy of someone cleverer than me!

[ Edited: 23 Mar 2017 at 04:30 pm by HB Anorak ]
Barbara Knight
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Leorn Welfare Rights Training Services, Derby

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Thank you, info much appreciated.

Daphne
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Regulations now out which reinstate legacy benefits in full service areas where claimants have three or more children - http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2017/483/made

Rehousing Advice.
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We went to full service on 22nd Feb.

Can anyone advise me what happens…... between now and 6th April for families with 3 children….....?

Jon Blackwell
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MartinB - 29 March 2017 10:24 AM

We went to full service on 22nd Feb.
Can anyone advise me what happens…... between now and 6th April for families with 3 children….....?

Under the regs as they are now if they make a claim then they’ll go onto UC ( unless the SoS uses his discretion under reg 4 of the UC(TP) regs )

From 6 April onwards they’ll go to legacy instead.

 

Rehousing Advice.
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Thanks Jon.

Struggling a bit, because don’t get the welfare benefit logic behind all this…...... 

 

MaggieB
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Dorchester CAB

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I always tell my CAB trainees (floundering around in the complexity of the benefits system) never try to apply logic!