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Forum Home  →  Discussion  →  Work capability issues and ESA  →  Thread

signing the form

Sally63
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The client has autism and learning difficulties. I’ve made the point on the form that she can write her name but not sign because she does not understand what she is signing.  She has an appointee for benefits.

Who should sign the ESA50? Both of them?

ClairemHodgson
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does she not understand what she is signing because she cannot read, or because, even if she could read, she has no capacity to understand it?

if the former, could she understand what she was signing if someone explained it to her verbally?  if so, then IMHO writing her name would count as “signing”. 

if in fact she has no capacity to understand then she can’t sign.  even the DWP can’t give people mental capacity they don’t have…....

and she needs an appointee for purposes other than benefits .......

Sally63
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ClairemHodgson - 20 February 2017 04:03 PM

does she not understand what she is signing because she cannot read, or because, even if she could read, she has no capacity to understand it?

if the former, could she understand what she was signing if someone explained it to her verbally?  if so, then IMHO writing her name would count as “signing”. 

if in fact she has no capacity to understand then she can’t sign.  even the DWP can’t give people mental capacity they don’t have…....

and she needs an appointee for purposes other than benefits .......

it’s too complicated to be explained to her verbally. She doesn’t understand money. She is constantly supervised indoors and out.

The question is how to give the DWP mental capacity they don’t have. Both sign, I guess, rather than get side tracked into a debate about mental capacity.

ClairemHodgson
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one of the safeguarding things that DWP don’t care about/get/etc

NeverSayNo
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Sally63 - 20 February 2017 03:26 PM

She has an appointee for benefits.

Who should sign the ESA50? Both of them?

It is the appointee who signs the form.

See https://www.gov.uk/become-appointee-for-someone-claiming-benefits where this is stated as a responsibility of the appointee.

Sally63
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The gov.uk website says the appointee will have a BF 57. This appointee hasn’t got a BF57. The ESA 50 covering letter is addressed to the appointee.

Have BF 57s only come in recently. I seem to remember a thread on here about FTTs refusing to accept appointees without BF57s—although our welfare benefits person said he had never known anyone asked for one.

Mike Hughes
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I thought BF 57s were post death. BF 56 surely?

Sally63
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Mike Hughes - 20 February 2017 05:49 PM

I thought BF 57s were post death. BF 56 surely?

The gov.uk quoted above says:

DWP arranges to visit the claimant to assess if an appointee is needed.
DWP interviews you to make sure you’re a suitable appointee.
During the interview, you and the interviewer fill out an appointee application form (Form BF56)
If DWP agrees with the application you’ll be sent Form BF57 (confirming you’ve been formally appointed to act for the claimant). You’re not the appointee until this happens.
Once you’re authorised, DWP will monitor the situation to make sure it’s still suitable for you and the claimant.

Is this a new arrangement? Further up it says it’s the appointee’s responsibility to sign benefit applications and they will be liable for overpayments. We need to get the important things clear.

Dan_Manville
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Sally63 - 20 February 2017 06:31 PM

Once you’re authorised, DWP will monitor the situation to make sure it’s still suitable for you and the claimant.

Will they?

Try getting an appointeeship revoked when, for instance, the appointee is in prison…

Mike Hughes
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Sally63 - 20 February 2017 06:31 PM
Mike Hughes - 20 February 2017 05:49 PM

I thought BF 57s were post death. BF 56 surely?

The gov.uk quoted above says:

DWP arranges to visit the claimant to assess if an appointee is needed.
DWP interviews you to make sure you’re a suitable appointee.
During the interview, you and the interviewer fill out an appointee application form (Form BF56)
If DWP agrees with the application you’ll be sent Form BF57 (confirming you’ve been formally appointed to act for the claimant). You’re not the appointee until this happens.
Once you’re authorised, DWP will monitor the situation to make sure it’s still suitable for you and the claimant.

Is this a new arrangement? Further up it says it’s the appointee’s responsibility to sign benefit applications and they will be liable for overpayments. We need to get the important things clear.

May have just made a case for my requiring an appointee!