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activity 4 - epilepsy
client has epilepsy without warning prior to a seizure,
DWP response in appeal papers - having a shower eliminates the risk to drowning.
would anyone agree that passing out in a shower would still have a significant risk to drowning?
Yes drowning is still possible (if less likely than in a bath) but this rather misses the point. There are lots of other risks beyond drowning - falling through a glass shower door, smashing teeth out on bath taps, breaking bones, etc., that are equally possible from having a fit in a shower.
Also, see CPIP/2094/2015. The test discussed there is the ability to get in and out of an unadapted bath and a shower (i.e. both, not just one or the other). The same principle should apply to a need for supervision; the test should be can the claimant have both a bath and a shower safely without supervision? If not they meet descriptor C.
client has epilepsy without warning prior to a seizure,
DWP response in appeal papers - having a shower eliminates the risk to drowning.
would anyone agree that passing out in a shower would still have a significant risk to drowning?
I doubt that it is a **significant** risk - but that depends on the type of shower used.
Would fall injuries not be more likely?
I remember as a kid (honest!) messing around in the shower and if you put your foot over the drain hole it didn’t take long for the water to get up to the inch deep that you hear bandied around as being deep enough to drown in.
Also see CPIP/1671/2015 - if the seizures are frequent enough that the client has a general need for supervision, they don’t need to show any particular risk associated with the particular activity concerned. Similar approach in CPIP/3573/2015 concerning the difference between somebody’s need for supervision and their ability to perform an activity safely.
Yes drowning is still possible (if less likely than in a bath) but this rather misses the point. There are lots of other risks beyond drowning - falling through a glass shower door, smashing teeth out on bath taps, breaking bones, etc., that are equally possible from having a fit in a shower.
not to mention banging your head as you fall, suffering a fractured skull/severe brain injury/potential risk of death from that….
However unlikely it seems to be (to drown in a shower) it is not unknown;
https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=“drowned in shower”
There may be limited circumstances where this could be a real risk.
Quite how one would manage to block the waste and keep the mouth in the described inch of water is beyond me.
Thanks to the lovely long hair of my daughters our shower is regularly blocked sufficiently to cause several inches of water to accumulate…
There’s a gap between a risk being “eliminated”, and “significant”. The following review suggests that the risk in a shower is an order of magnitude less than the risk of using a bath (15 bath drownings vs 1 in a shower):
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1490574/
Thanks for that folks - I am using CPIP/1671/2015 on the case however I do like to be prepared for more arguments :)
Cheers!
However unlikely it seems to be (to drown in a shower) it is not unknown;
https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=“drowned in shower”
There may be limited circumstances where this could be a real risk.
Quite how one would manage to block the waste and keep the mouth in the described inch of water is beyond me.
Once you have knocked yourself unconscious it takes a minimal amount of water. A single mouthful could be enough. The key bit is that you’re not breathing when you take it in. A medical friend of mine said that as a student they had been shown drowning could be achieved with a single tea spoon of water and that no circumstances were really extraordinary once you were unconscious.