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Forum Home  →  Discussion  →  Disability benefits  →  Thread

To assist with PIP and ESA or not?

Shazz
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Welfare Reform Team Northwards Housing Manchester

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Hi,

I’m in a bit of a quandary about whether to help a client apply for PIP and ESA or not and I just wanted to ask if anyone had any thoughts on the matter.

Basically, my client was previously homeless and is addicted to drugs. He has a support worker who I work closely with. I gave some initial advice about claiming disability benefits but advised him the best way forward would be to discuss with GP to see if they are willing to support his claim by providing evidence. The GP has refused to do this as they said he needs to address his drug problems first. He has told me he is taking subutex medication and also engaging with Addiction Services.

At the moment he is on JSA and is managing to comply with this and I can see he is doing his best to do, in his words “everything everyone keeps asking me to do”. I am not a medical professional but do help lots of people apply for disability benefits and to be honest in my opinion I don’t know how he managing.

From all the encounters I have had with this gentlemen, he is evidently unwell. He is twitching, crying, getting anxious, slurring his words, getting confused, talking to himself, telling me he’s been suicidal.  He would clearly not be employed if he was looking for a job. However, my other side is agreeing with his GP and think that by applying for these benefits may exacerbate his situation. He’s terrified of becoming homeless again and is extremely vulnerable, I get the impression there are people going round to his property to hang out. He has also struggled managing his bills and I have helped him reset payment plans but given he is on JSA and his current health my instinct is that he will soon be back struggling to pay them again.

I just wondered what anyone else’s views are on this? I’d be more than appreciative of it.

My parting words were today that he probably could apply for these benefits but at this present time it probably wouldn’t be in his best interests. I keep thinking if I’ve given the right advice as he was in a right state when I saw him which is why I wanted to bounce of other advisers their feelings on the matter? Help!

ClairemHodgson
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Solicitor, SC Law, Harrow

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from your description i wonder about capacity for various things.

GP is being unhelpful; is mental health etc involved, can you get evidence from the people helping with his addiction and suchlike?

Paul_Treloar_AgeUK
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Information and advice resources - Age UK

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The opinion of his GP as to his eligibility for any particular benefit is, with respect, meaningless. However, when I worked in a psychiatric hospital, I did come across consultant psychiatrists who would refuse to support claims because they felt it embedded a dependency rather than helping overcome it. So I understand it can be difficult, especially if they refuse to issue a med cert.

You’ve described someone who sounds clearly unfit for work at the moment, and therefore possibly entitled to ESA and who may also satisfy the criteria for assistance with daily living and therefore possibly a PIP claim as well. As you’ll be more than aware, these may not be straightforward to establish entitlement to but he should be advised they are options and the decision as to whether to claim remains that of your client, on an informed basis. If he asks for your help with these, then I think it should be given, subject to capacity etc.

If the concern is that he will use any money gained to spend on illegal substances, that is something that support services have a primary duty to respond to and deal with. As he’s on a treatment programme, flagging this to his support worker seems sensible. It’s not really our place to decide whether our clients can (or cannot) claim any particular benefit, but to advise of their options and likely outcomes.

Shazz
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Welfare Reform Team Northwards Housing Manchester

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Hi Paul,

Many thanks for your response. I felt like I was in a moral dilemma so it’s good to be able to see other opinions on this type of issue. I will take your comments on board. I am working closely with him and his Support Worker.

Thank you, much appreciated

Sharon

Paul_Treloar_AgeUK
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No worries Sharon, it’s always good to check your thinking on these things.

I would add that, as well as looking at risks, it’s important to consider the benefits of extra income. Might help him save for deposit for flat, might help buy some basic furnishings if so, can help make sure he eats properly and pays his bills, so establishing himself into the community is made slightly easier perhaps?

Again, from the work with people recovering from addiction difficulties, I’ve seen people who’ve responded really well to be given some trust and autonomy and support, when enabled to take things at their own speed. And if signing for JSA, they still seem to be giving out sanctions like smarties, so ameliorating his work search requirements could help prevent him falling foul here for now.

Good luck with it all, cheers Paul

davidsmithp1000
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Brighton Unemployed Centre Families Project

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Ruth Knox
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Vauxhall Law Centre

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It is difficult but if the benefit is available (which it is) to someone who has a drug addiction then our role must be to ensure that they know they are potentially entitled to this and, if they wish us to, to assist them to get it.  It’s wrong for us to start making judgements as to whether they will be better with or without it Ruth

Mike Hughes
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Agree with the above responses. There’s a danger of turning this into a moral dilemma where none exists. The perspective of a medical professional will often be different to ours but ours is a role which involves identifying missing entitlements and alerting claimants or their reps. to those options and assisting when needed. We give people the knowledge to understand there’s a choice and it is their choice as to whether to claim. It certainly isn’t down to us or a medical professional.

I say that as someone who came under considerable pressure more than once from MH social workers and others to not claim DLA/AA for alcoholic clients who would “drink themselves to death” in consequence of having the extra money. Ultimately that’s a speculative perspective with which I decline to engage. Poverty has yet to be shown to be a cure for illness and hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I have also had to appear at a coroners court where criticism of one of my staff was levelled by the family of the deceased because we did our job and identified missing entitlements which were successfully claimed. Coroner accepted that death was due to alcohol but that it would be a nonsense to attribute blame for an alcoholic continuing to be an alcoholic.

As I have posted elsewhere repeatedly I also think there’s a danger of making bad calls on the merits of a claim if we get bogged down in the idea that only claims with supporting medical evidence or a supportive medical professional will succeed. Most claims which succeed do so without us or medical professionals and most do so without medical evidence. The cases our specialist input is needed are perhaps cases exactly like this rather than the person who does have a supportive GP etc.

Ruth Knox
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Vauxhall Law Centre

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It is true that sometimes these benefits will be used to support the addiction, but we must also remember that the advice to those in recovery from alcohol is “Don’t be hungry, don’t be cold, don’t be angry” - hard instructions to follow on £73.10 a week. The extra money from PIP can also help people with the additional comfort which makes it a little easier to fight the addiction.  Ruth

stevenmcavoy
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Ruth Knox - 10 February 2017 12:56 PM

It is difficult but if the benefit is available (which it is) to someone who has a drug addiction then our role must be to ensure that they know they are potentially entitled to this and, if they wish us to, to assist them to get it.  It’s wrong for us to start making judgements as to whether they will be better with or without it Ruth

this is it for me.

I have strong personal opinions about the benefits of a strong welfare state which no doubt help me do the job i do but ultimately i always come back to being clear that my role is to explain what benefits might be available and help people access them when there is a chance that they could be entitled.

sometimes we can be asked to give opinion on the chances of a claim or appeal being successful etc but that is as far as it goes.

If the person may be entitled its an advice workers duty to tell them that.

for what its worth i dont really feel that more income makes a relapse more likely and even if benefit money did end up being spent on drugs etc then there is always the chance a % would still be spent on positive things or even a reduction in potential criminal behaviour.

If medical people want to take a view that this money makes relapse more likely i hope thats backed up by evidence.