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Lobster Pot - Revisited
I just want to check I’ve understood the DWP response on this ...
http://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewreply/32332/
... do they mean that (almost*) any UC claimant who has a change of circumstances which puts them outside of gateway can withdraw their UC claim and then potentially claim legacy instead?
(*) I’m not sure about claimants in a “re-award period” (presumably this refers to claimants covered by reg 6 of the UC C&P regs - no re-claim required where less than six months of nil-entitlement due to earnings?) - it’s not clear from their answer how (or if) this actually prevents withdrawal of the UC claim - but any case it won’t affect a large proportion of UC claimants.
Can that be correct? It doesn’t sound like the lobster pot as originally described.
I read this as simply meaning that, once the 6 months is up, they are treated as a new claim and subject to whatever conditions, local or gateway, apply to new claims.
If they are within the 6 months then the lobster pot still applies. I am interested in the mechanics of “provided that they do not opt out of RTI monitoring”; how does that work?
In the example they give..
“- A claims UC
- A becomes pregnant
- A notifies that they wish to withdraw their UC claim
- A then claims benefit (possibly as soon as the UC award has ended) - they cannot claim UC because of the gateway condition for pregnancy
- A therefore claims legacy benefits.”
.. it’s implied that there’s no need to wait six months for the claim to lapse.
In terms of the regs I don’t see anything special about that change in circumstances ( becoming pregnant ) compared to any other changes which would also take the claimant out of gateway (e.g. becoming a carer, self-employed, reaching 60.5, etc).
It’s contradictory isn’t it? The first thing they say is ” Essentially, a claimant can’t ‘choose’ to return to legacy benefits simply because they want to, however there may be some situations where a UC claimant will then go on to claim legacy benefits at a later date.”.
A ‘later date’ I’ve assumed means after 6 months. In their case perhaps A becomes pregnant within the 6 months but doesn’t have a low enough income to receive Universal Credit. After the 6 months expires, she claims but doesn’t meet gateway conditions.
There does however seem to be the option to close a claim; the process according to their guidance is
Closing a claim
Summary
How to close a claim if you want to stop claiming Universal Credit and when claims are closed by Department for Work and Pensions
If you want to stop claiming Universal Credit you can close your claim by telephoning 0345 600 0723 or by textphone 0345 600 0743.
The adviser will ask why you want to close your claim and tell you if you should be reporting a change in your circumstances instead.
If you close your claim in writing an adviser will contact you by telephone.
Universal Credit will close your claim if you:
have submitted a claim and you and/or your partner have not provided the required evidence within 1 month
have reported a change in your circumstances and you and/or your partner have not provided the evidence needed within the required time
are no longer eligible for Universal Credit because of a change in your circumstances
If you are already getting Universal Credit you will get a letter confirming that your claim has been closed.
If your claim is closed due to a change in your circumstances any outstanding Universal Credit will be paid.
So does that mean that the “bus to Belfast” isn’t needed?
It looks as though many C of Cs might potentially allow a return to legacy. ( In at least one case, JCP seem to have actively encouraged an out of area UC claimant to go back legacy as they were *unable* to pay housing costs. )
If so, then it could be good news for some claimants who’d otherwise be much worse off if they’re stuck on UC.
Maybe it would be good news for DWP too if a subset of UC claimants who become “difficult cases” can be diverted away from creaking UC processing systems.
Does anyone know if this is possible?
I’d have a look (although you probably already have) at Daphne’s last post in this thread
I’d have a look (although you probably already have) at Daphne’s last post in this thread
Yes - it’s my inability to understand DWP’s answer to Daphne’s question that prompted me to ask.
They’ve told us…
(1) ” a [UC] claimant can’t ‘choose’ to return to legacy benefits simply because they want to”
but (for some UC claimants)
(2) “it is possible for someone to choose to come off UC and claim legacy benefits”
... so how broad is category (2)?
[ Edited: 2 Dec 2014 at 05:03 pm by Jon Blackwell ]
I actually rang the number to ask. A very helpful chap said that they would try to persuade people not to withdraw claims and explain the problems that might be caused but, if people insisted, they would withdraw claims - at the moment. What would happen if they then claimed benefits again would depend, as he said that he “couldn’t speak for other benefits sections that got a claim from someone in this position”.
This is the latest from operational stakeholders on the lobster pot syndrome -
The policy is that once you are on UC and your claim is live you remain on UC whatever the changes in your circs. If you are vulnerable and have ‘supported exempt accommodation you may receive UC and legacy Housing Benefit (not the UC Housing Element). The other situation is that if you are on UC and then come off because you close the claim or your income is higher than the threshold – we hold your claim open for 6 months, then close it. If you subsequently become sick after closure you would go onto sickness benefit, had the UC claim remained open and you report sickness, then UC would pay the benefit.
Sickness benefit? They have a lobster pot and a time machine?