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UC mixed age couples - is this right?
One of our 3 jobcentres has now rolled out to ‘full service’ UC. So I’m probably revisiting issues that are sorted!
The Memo ADM 14/16 that’s followed the commencement order in this full service roll out has me puzzled about mixed age couples. I thought that if one is under PC age and the other over, they would have to claim UC and not PC * .
However, if I’m reading the memo right, it seems to indicate that a claim (in full service) for HB and TC can still be made (rather than UC) if mixed age.
“SPC qualifying age
14 Paragraph 10 does not apply where a claim for HB is made by a person
1. ... or
2. is a member of a couple for the purposes of SPC, the other member of which
has reached the qualifying age for SPC”
(Another exception to para 10 is where a claim is made for HB for specified
Accommodation)
“15 Paragraph 10 does not apply where a claim for a TC is made by
1. ....or
2. a couple for the purposes of TC where one or both members have reached the
qualifying age for SPC or
3. a person who does not fall within 1., and is a member of a couple for the
purposes of SPC where the other member of the couple has reached the
qualifying age for SPC.”
Can anyone explain what the do da? What does it all mean?
Thank you, Clive
* the Welf Ref Act sched 2: The Explanatory memo: “Paragraph 64 amends the SPCA 2002 so that a member of a couple who has attained the qualifying age for state pension credit may not receive state pension credit if the other member of the couple has not attained that qualifying age.”
As far as we know Clive, you’re correct that currently mixed-age couples can still claim PC (and HB and/or TC’s) as appropriate in Full Digital UC areas. Also discussed here
My understanding from the notes from last DWP OSEF meeting (which I missed unfortunately) is that it is intended that mixed-age couples will start to be affected when the Full Digital roll-out is completed. Whether that remains the case as time moves on is very much a moot point in my opinion.
that’s really helpful, thank you Paul.
So mixed aged couples can still claim PC in full service UC areas until we hear otherwise!
How will we hear I wonder, as the Welfare Reform Act allows for the prevention of PC claims in mixed age couples already. Will it be by a memo or legislation?
Thank you again
Clive
So mixed aged couples can still claim PC in full service UC areas until we hear otherwise!
How will we hear I wonder, as the Welfare Reform Act allows for the prevention of PC claims in mixed age couples already. Will it be by a memo or legislation?
Hi Clive -we should hear by way of a commencement order which will bring in Universal Credit amendments contained in schedule 2 para 64 to the Welfare Reform Act 2012 at some point in the future - I think this is the most up to date wording for the future amendment which says -
‘In section 4 of the State Pension Credit Act 2002 (exclusions), after subsection (1) there is inserted– “(1A) A claimant is not entitled to state pension credit if he is a member of a couple the other member of which has not attained the qualifying age.’
..that’s really helpful, thank you Paul.
How will we hear I wonder, as the Welfare Reform Act allows for the prevention of PC claims in mixed age couples already. Will it be by a memo or legislation?..
Clive
I know what you mean - in terms of commencement orders (or amendments to commencement orders) they seem to cutting it finer and finer ( no idea if this is a deliberate policy) ... as usual ADM memos are still lagging a little behind for the moment.
( I suspect/hope that for that PC mixed age couple change we’re still looking at 2018 or later)
( I suspect/hope that for that PC mixed age couple change we’re still looking at 2018 or later)
Fingers very crossed here Jon.
Could anyone confirm what happens in this scenario:
Full service area, couple just under PC age, currently on legacy benefits. They will be a bit better off moving to UC. One of them reaches PC age in a few months. Will there be any problems claiming UC, then switching to PC when they reach the right age, or will they be stuck on UC as a mixed age couple? I can’t see anything to prevent withdrawal of UC and then a PC claim, but haven’t had chance to dig much.
PC regs are the ones that need amending to exclude claims from those where one member is under PC age - that hasn’t happened as yet and not sure when it will (presumably about the same time as they introduce the new housing costs for rent and child components into PC?). So yes, can still choose to get PC instead - surrender UC claim and nothing to prevent PC claim instead.
Thanks for the quick reply!
Just spent too long mulling it over in the recent past ...
Is there any clarity around UC with mixed age couples? We have just gone full service and the messages seem a bit confusing
I have a couple who are living together but have never disclosed this to the relevant authorities. It seems that their co-habitation came to light in June 2016 but they have taken no action to rectify the situation. The male is receiving GPC and the lady was in receipt of HB and ESA but these were stopped in June 2016 but no new claims were made.
The lady has been advised by JCP that as we are full service they would have to claim UC, but there is information to suggest that the male could just add his partner to his GPC claim and apply for HB?
Is anybody able to provide any clarity please?
Mixed age couples still have the capacity to claim PC and cannot be mandated to claim UC instead.
I think the understandable confusion arises because the original intention was to implement the mixed couple changes once an area transitioned to Full Service UC . So that thought is naturally flying around Advisers and DWP staff who have not yet read the still to be written memo :-)
On the other hand, the consequential changes to PC e.g. a new PC Housing Credit to replace HB and child allowances to replace CTC was always meant to wait until some point after the transition to Full Service UC is completed i.e some time after September 2018.
However, by briefings and announcements at meeting - as Paul indicates - it seems that this is a change too far for a Full Service UC already struggling with the realities of a wider range of customer needs . There are already too many signs of an overdose of blue sky thinking and an allergy to letting grown ups into the room in the design stages. In general it is rather disappointing to see how a pilot that has been going since 2014 is still testing everyone’s patience quite so much and yet appears to have learnt very little.
But that the upside of the long in the tooth problems down at Full Service UC does mean the totally unjust - in the absence of a UC pensioner element - mixed age policy has also been put back to beyond September 2018. I wonder then if after a little lie down the two may be implemented as some point during the 9 month contingency / firebreak between September 2018 and July 2019 ?
That gives some time for PC take-up campaigns - “Claim it, while you still can !” - as all such pensioner couples stand to lose £126 a week (due to UC’s pensioner gap) and disabled / poorly couples up to £240 a week (due to UC’ disability gap / carers cuts) . So get people into the PC lobsterpot now - once on PC stay on PC :-) .
[ Edited: 13 Mar 2017 at 11:25 pm by Tom Messere ]A further thought query has come up - all seem agreed that there is no requirement for mixed age couples to claim until the transition to Full Service is complete ie some time after Sept 2018.
And that it would be possible even in a full Service area for such a couple who had wandered into UC’s grasp to escape out of it, as long as it is to start a joint PC claim instead. That wouldn’t though be possible if the couple parted and the younger partner hoped to get a working age legacy benefit
But what if a couple voluntarily wish to choose to claim UC ? why I can’t think as financially it seems only capable of being quite a downer.
Given that the delay in the original plan - to bring this in as each area transitioned to full service - was down to the IT not being ready for this, will such keen early adopters just be signposted over to PC instead? In the same way as new claims from larger families are directed to tax credits?
i.e as well as not being a requirement for mixed age couples starting a claim in UC Full Service area, and in theory it being escapable for now, is it even possible for couple to do so voluntarily?
As far as I know, yes it is possible for a mixed-age couple to choose to claim UC instead of PC.
As you say, it’s difficult to think why they’d want to but I think they can.
There is a vague possibility that the earnings taper could work to someone’s advantage on UC rather than the 100% after disregard on GPC but I’ve never bothered trying to create such a case.
Follow-up question, if I may ...
.. mixed-age couple, full service area. The younger one is working, the older member of the couple is not. Can they start a claim for WTC, based on the UC-age person’s 30+ hours of work? We reckon there should be some entitlement.
They are currently have a UC claim which is paying £nil due to the earnings level, I assume that would need to be withdrawn before a WTC could go in.
Follow-up question, if I may ...
.. mixed-age couple, full service area. The younger one is working, the older member of the couple is not. Can they start a claim for WTC, based on the UC-age person’s 30+ hours of work? We reckon there should be some entitlement.
They are currently have a UC claim which is paying £nil due to the earnings level, I assume that would need to be withdrawn before a WTC could go in.
I believe you are correct that they can ask for the UC claim to be closed and once that happens, they can then claim WTC (and PC perhaps).
However, be aware this isn’t always straightforward - we had an enquiry yesterday where client sent various paperwork to HMRC showing UC claim closed, yet HMRC say DWP told them UC was still in payment and refused TC’s, case now on its way to appeal.
Met DWP officials yesterday who said they expect mixed-age couples to be able to continue to claim PC until at least 31 October 2018 on current predictions around roll-out.
Thanks Paul. Something doesn’t feel right about a WTC claim relying on one person only meeting the working hours condition, and the other person only meeting the age condition. But, the Tax Credit Act does refer to a “tax credit couple”, as opposed to claimant and partner, so I can’t see why not.