× Search rightsnet
Search options

Where

Benefit

Jurisdiction

Jurisdiction

From

to

Forum Home  →  Discussion  →  Work capability issues and ESA  →  Thread

Uncontrollable crying and Activity 17

wr4
forum member

Lewes Citizens Advice Bureau

Send message

Total Posts: 71

Joined: 15 May 2014

I was wondering whether anybody knows whether frequent and uncontrollable crying could be classed as uncontrollable episodes of aggressive or disinhibited behaviour that would be unreasonable in any workplace for Activity 17?  Thanks a lot.

Dan_Manville
forum member

Mental health & welfare rights service - Wolverhampton City Council

Send message

Total Posts: 2262

Joined: 15 October 2012

I’ve successfully argued that uncontrollable crying is disinhibited behaviour. Wasn’t a problem.

wr4
forum member

Lewes Citizens Advice Bureau

Send message

Total Posts: 71

Joined: 15 May 2014

@Dan Manville
Amazing.  Was it ok at FTT or did it go to UT?  I don’t suppose you have any hints for my submission (I couldn’t find anything in the WCA handbook)?  Thanks a lot!

Mike Hughes
forum member

Senior welfare rights officer - Salford City Council Welfare Rights Service

Send message

Total Posts: 3138

Joined: 17 June 2010

Just argued the same on an MR. Watch this space.

wr4
forum member

Lewes Citizens Advice Bureau

Send message

Total Posts: 71

Joined: 15 May 2014

The anticipation is killing me!

Mike Hughes
forum member

Senior welfare rights officer - Salford City Council Welfare Rights Service

Send message

Total Posts: 3138

Joined: 17 June 2010

wr4 - 03 March 2015 01:38 PM

The anticipation is killing me!

That’s well on the way to being disinhibited. Such an overly emotional reaction :)

Presumably if we can get clients to admit they use LOL and ROFL that’ll count too :)

wr4
forum member

Lewes Citizens Advice Bureau

Send message

Total Posts: 71

Joined: 15 May 2014

I often find myself attributing descriptors to all those around me - haha glad I’m not the only one!

Paul_Treloar_CPAG
forum member

Advice and Rights Team, Child Poverty Action Group

Send message

Total Posts: 550

Joined: 30 June 2014

Same as Dan, I’ve managed to get client’s appeal allowed on this basis (and indeed also in the SG). Client became very emotional and upset when asked about life events that had lead to depression and anxiety and was clearly in a very fragile state. Chair recommended no reassessment for 2 years, to allow client time to try and benefit from input of psychiatric services who he was engaged with.

wr4
forum member

Lewes Citizens Advice Bureau

Send message

Total Posts: 71

Joined: 15 May 2014

@Paul_Treloar_CPAG
Thank you for the input..

Still looking for more info to help my submission - especially if anybody knows any case law!

1964
forum member

Deputy Manager, Reading Community Welfare Rights Unit

Send message

Total Posts: 1711

Joined: 16 June 2010

No case law but I’ve argued the same at tribunal and had no difficulty getting Activity 17 points awarded.

Paul_Treloar_CPAG
forum member

Advice and Rights Team, Child Poverty Action Group

Send message

Total Posts: 550

Joined: 30 June 2014

I agree, arguing the facts of your client’s case and relating to the normal use of the words should be sufficient. Even medical evidence is of limited use to an extent, because it’s often the case that the client becomes distressed during your interview unfortunately and similarly will have problems at the hearing.

wr4
forum member

Lewes Citizens Advice Bureau

Send message

Total Posts: 71

Joined: 15 May 2014

Wow thanks for all the input.. I am going to do it then..

chrisorr
forum member

Moneymatters Govan

Send message

Total Posts: 3

Joined: 3 March 2015

case law is in CSE/697/13 (its on rightsnet)  “the new tribunal can accept that episodes of tearfulness can amount to disinhibited behaviour” Judge Gamble,  supported by Judge Parker in CSE/536/2014

wr4
forum member

Lewes Citizens Advice Bureau

Send message

Total Posts: 71

Joined: 15 May 2014

@chrisorr
Wow, just wow!  Thank you so much!

wr4
forum member

Lewes Citizens Advice Bureau

Send message

Total Posts: 71

Joined: 15 May 2014

CSE/697/13 is attached in this thread if anybody wants:
http://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/6187/#26157

Mike Hughes
forum member

Senior welfare rights officer - Salford City Council Welfare Rights Service

Send message

Total Posts: 3138

Joined: 17 June 2010

Chris Orr still exists and posts on Rightsnet. Wow. Just wow 😊