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PIP renewal

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sue c
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Client has been sent what would seem to be renewal form 12 mths in advance of expiry of PIP fixed term award, wih deadline of 1 mth for its return. “Helpline” insists that it is a renewal and that these are now sent out 12 mths in advance. is this really right? Am waiting for the section to get back to me (5 day call back!). Has anyone else reached a renewal styage yet?

Tom B (WRAMAS)
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Gvien the delays I guess it’s necessary to be issuing renewal forms a year in advance.

I sincerely hope there are very few 1 yr awards on the books though.

Edmund Shepherd
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No-one has reached that stage yet, but it would make sense to issue them sufficiently in advance for them to be processed and decided before the end of the award.

ranaway
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I’ve done a renewal for a client with a PIP award set to expire January 2015; 7 months in advance.

*gets to back of assessment queue*

BC Welfare Rights
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sue c - 05 August 2014 10:30 AM

Client has been sent what would seem to be renewal form 12 mths in advance of expiry of PIP fixed term award, wih deadline of 1 mth for its return. “Helpline” insists that it is a renewal and that these are now sent out 12 mths in advance.

This is a complete and utter nonsense. How can a realistic assessment of somebody’s needs be done 12 months in advance of the relevant assessment time? By the time the renewal date comes along what is written on the PIP form will often be largely irrelevant. If a week is along time in politics, what is a year in medicine?

Lunacy.

1964
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Oh for Pity’s Sake. This is becoming a complete debacle. Presumably this means that the client I have whose appeal has just succeeded will, on the presumption the DWP pays her PIP without requesting SOR/suspending payment until the SOR is produced, immediately send her a renewal form (as the award now has only a year to run, it having taken so long for a decision to be made/appeal to be heard). We may as well just appeal now, in advance, against the negative MR that is bound to result from the failure of the renewal claim when a decision is finally made in a year’s time.

This is increasingly out the other side of ludicrous.

Paul_Treloar_CPAG
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I’m not even entirely sure that this approach would be strictly lawful, given the 9 month forward ‘required period’ test - how can someone complete a renewal more than 12 months before the date that the effective decision is to be expected?

Jon Shaw
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sue c - 05 August 2014 10:30 AM

Client has been sent what would seem to be renewal form 12 mths in advance of expiry of PIP fixed term award, wih deadline of 1 mth for its return. “Helpline” insists that it is a renewal and that these are now sent out 12 mths in advance. is this really right? Am waiting for the section to get back to me (5 day call back!). Has anyone else reached a renewal styage yet?

I don’t think that this is a renewal claim. It sounds like a PIP2 form. The plans for what happens to PIP awards lasting over 2 years are a bit murky, but this is my understanding.

According to ADM para p2061 at point 2, one year before the award is due to end, some kind of flag tells DWP to review entitlement. Presumably it is supposed to be a computer flag but they are currently using semaphore or maybe an early form of telegraph…

The PIP2 is sent out, as I think has happened to your client - see SS(PIP) Reg 11. The DM can supersede the award if they want, as they can rely on further medical evidence being received (Reg 26(1) of SI 2013/381); or a ‘negative determination’ if the form isn’t returned (Reg 26(2)).

So assuming that the client completes the form and has a further assessment, the DM can either vary, remove or extend the existing award by superseding it, or the existing award could be left in place (ie somehow the DM still thinks that they got the end date exactly right when they originally made the award). I know the last one sounds a bit mad, but DWP policy people suggested in an email to us that this could happen.

If the award isn’t extended, then the end date remains the same, and a new claim must be made. My understanding from the DWP is that a prompt to do this should be issued 14 weeks before the end date - obviously nothing in the Regs requires it, and see comments above relating to semaphore.

However, someone already getting PIP can make a new claim up to 6 months before their existing award is due to end (see Reg 33(2) of SI 2013/380). Not that 6 months is enough time to get a decision in many areas in the current chaos…

Good luck with advising clients what to do about all of this, everyone!

On a slightly more serious note, I still go to bed muttering ‘a PIP2 is not a claim form’ over and over again just to keep myself on-message. DLA mentality is a hard thing to shake…

 

 

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Jon Shaw - 05 August 2014 07:50 PM

I don’t think that this is a renewal claim. It sounds like a PIP2 form. The plans for what happens to PIP awards lasting over 2 years are a bit murky, but this is my understanding.

According to ADM para p2061 at point 2, one year before the award is due to end, some kind of flag tells DWP to review entitlement. Presumably it is supposed to be a computer flag but they are currently using semaphore or maybe an early form of telegraph…

The PIP2 is sent out, as I think has happened to your client - see SS(PIP) Reg 11. The DM can supersede the award if they want, as they can rely on further medical evidence being received (Reg 26(1) of SI 2013/381); or a ‘negative determination’ if the form isn’t returned (Reg 26(2)).

So assuming that the client completes the form and has a further assessment, the DM can either vary, remove or extend the existing award by superseding it, or the existing award could be left in place (ie somehow the DM still thinks that they got the end date exactly right when they originally made the award). I know the last one sounds a bit mad, but DWP policy people suggested in an email to us that this could happen.

If the award isn’t extended, then the end date remains the same, and a new claim must be made. My understanding from the DWP is that a prompt to do this should be issued 14 weeks before the end date - obviously nothing in the Regs requires it, and see comments above relating to semaphore.

However, someone already getting PIP can make a new claim up to 6 months before their existing award is due to end (see Reg 33(2) of SI 2013/380). Not that 6 months is enough time to get a decision in many areas in the current chaos…

 

Thank you for explaining that Jon. Not lunacy after all, just weird.

The ADM says:
DMs will also have a role in deciding the review date which will be detailed in the DM’s procedural guidance

Do you know where this procedural guidance can be found?

Tom B (WRAMAS)
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Jon Shaw - 05 August 2014 07:50 PM
sue c - 05 August 2014 10:30 AM

Client has been sent what would seem to be renewal form 12 mths in advance of expiry of PIP fixed term award, wih deadline of 1 mth for its return. “Helpline” insists that it is a renewal and that these are now sent out 12 mths in advance. is this really right? Am waiting for the section to get back to me (5 day call back!). Has anyone else reached a renewal styage yet?

I don’t think that this is a renewal claim. It sounds like a PIP2 form. The plans for what happens to PIP awards lasting over 2 years are a bit murky, but this is my understanding.

According to ADM para p2061 at point 2, one year before the award is due to end, some kind of flag tells DWP to review entitlement. Presumably it is supposed to be a computer flag but they are currently using semaphore or maybe an early form of telegraph…

The PIP2 is sent out, as I think has happened to your client - see SS(PIP) Reg 11. The DM can supersede the award if they want, as they can rely on further medical evidence being received (Reg 26(1) of SI 2013/381); or a ‘negative determination’ if the form isn’t returned (Reg 26(2)).

So assuming that the client completes the form and has a further assessment, the DM can either vary, remove or extend the existing award by superseding it, or the existing award could be left in place (ie somehow the DM still thinks that they got the end date exactly right when they originally made the award). I know the last one sounds a bit mad, but DWP policy people suggested in an email to us that this could happen.

If the award isn’t extended, then the end date remains the same, and a new claim must be made. My understanding from the DWP is that a prompt to do this should be issued 14 weeks before the end date - obviously nothing in the Regs requires it, and see comments above relating to semaphore.

However, someone already getting PIP can make a new claim up to 6 months before their existing award is due to end (see Reg 33(2) of SI 2013/380). Not that 6 months is enough time to get a decision in many areas in the current chaos…

Good luck with advising clients what to do about all of this, everyone!

On a slightly more serious note, I still go to bed muttering ‘a PIP2 is not a claim form’ over and over again just to keep myself on-message. DLA mentality is a hard thing to shake…

 

OP mentions a fixed term award ending in 12 mths rather than a longer term 2+ yr award. I think it’s more likely this is in reference to a renewal claim rather than a speculative exercise by DWP

I’m unaware of the renewal process/procedure for PIP and cannot find any guidance. Is anyone aware of how it is actually supposed to work in practice?

i.e. would people be invited to make a fresh claim using the standard initial claim telephone line? or would DWP just seek to confirm existing information? Would claimants be sent some sort of pro forma letter? Would they just receive a PIP2 form through the post?

Regs allow a renewal claim up to 6 mths in advance of existing award ending - as far as I’m aware this hasn’t been extended legislatively has it?

Jon Shaw
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tbidmead - 06 August 2014 12:47 PM

OP mentions a fixed term award ending in 12 mths rather than a longer term 2+ yr award. I think it’s more likely this is in reference to a renewal claim rather than a speculative exercise by DWP

I’m unaware of the renewal process/procedure for PIP and cannot find any guidance. Is anyone aware of how it is actually supposed to work in practice?

i.e. would people be invited to make a fresh claim using the standard initial claim telephone line? or would DWP just seek to confirm existing information? Would claimants be sent some sort of pro forma letter? Would they just receive a PIP2 form through the post?

Regs allow a renewal claim up to 6 mths in advance of existing award ending - as far as I’m aware this hasn’t been extended legislatively has it?

Sorry, I wasn’t quite clear. I agree that it is in connection to the award ending, but I read the OP as saying that the award was due to end in 12 months, and assumed from the process being followed that it was likely to be a two year award (but I could be wrong).

The only publicly available guidance I’ve seen is the ADM para I referred to above.

‘Duration of award
P2061 When deciding the duration of an award of PIP the DM should look at all the evidence and facts of the case, including the advice from the HP. There will be three types of awards
1. short fixed term awards, which will be for a minimum of 9 months and a maximum of 2 years or
2. longer fixed term awards, where the DM will set an expiry date 12 months after the date on which the claimant is due to be referred to the HP for a review or
3. ongoing awards where it would be inappropriate to give a fixed term award where any change is highly unlikely.
Note: DMs will also have a role in deciding the review date which will be detailed in the DM’s procedural guidance.’

The procedural guidance (referred to in s88 WRA 2012 as well) is not public, as far as I know.

DWP did confirm to us that in cases under 2 above, the first step is to send out a PIP2 form. It will be interesting to see whether they are going to send everyone for a F2F assessment, given the ongoing backlog of new claims…

My point I guess was just to highlight that the PIP2 is not a claim form. In practice DWP could invite a new claim (although I can’t see why they wouldn’t just supersede, unless they want to overload the claims processes yet further); or could supersede the award to extend it, vary it, remove it, etc.

If they did invite a claim I think that the process would be as for a new claim. You are spot on that renewal claims can still be made up to six months in advance of the award ending. My feeling is that in practice they will use the supersession powers more often, although that depends on them getting the OP’s client through the assessment process within 12 months, of course…

Jon

[Edited for grammatical sense.]

[ Edited: 8 Aug 2014 at 03:05 pm by Jon Shaw ]
BC Welfare Rights
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[quote author=“Jon Shaw” date=“1407506602

The procedural guidance (referred to in s88 WRA 2012 as well) is not public, as far as I know.

I’ve FOI requested it along with a couple of related matters in your previous post and will post here if anything comes back.

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Reply from FOI requests, they’ve lumped 3 different ones together so a bit confusing to read the original questions:

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/pip_renewal_process

Basically what Jon says above. I have requested the attached guidance again as it was not attached.

In short term awards, the DWP make a decision when making the original award that claimant will only be entitled to PIP for a certain period and it will not be likely to continue after that date. 14 weeks before the end of the award the claimant is notified that award is about to expire. They will then have to start afresh if they want to make a new claim.

For longer term awards a review date or ‘planned intervention’ is set for 12 months before expiry and a form “similar to a PIP2” is sent out, a new assessment done by Atos/Crapita and a new decision made.

How the DM is supposed to look into a crystal ball and predict what someone’s health needs are going to be in 18 months time is not explained.

Ian P
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My client’s PIP claim started in June 13. Awarded just the Mobility Component for 2 years, so made MR request & subsequent appeal for Daily Living Component.

Tribunal in July 14 was successful, awarded additional DLC for 2 years of existing award.

Payment of DLC was then withheld pending WSR request by DWP from HMCTS.

2 days later client was sent PIP renewal form. Client has poor literacy & unable to complete form.

WSR issued mid-August. Client receives reminder about returning form a week later & seeks help with form. 3 week wait for help.

DM evidently decided not to challenge tribunal decision because client was notified a day later of payment of DLC from start of claim.

We then called PIP to clarify if client still needs to complete form, his award still having 1 year to run & having just been confirmed by tribunal. Adviser on phone told me it sounded like a mistake on their part & as the award letter came after the reminder so maybe things crossed in the post & there may be no need to return the form. I asked for a call back to clarify.

The call back came from the same adviser who had checked with his supervisor & was told the “assessment provider” had set a 1 year review date so client has to complete the form. He couldn’t tell me if any extra time had been granted to allow this. I requested a call back to clarify. I called again yesterday & I was promised a call back today to be within the 5 working days but I am still waiting & time limit for returning form has now expired.

In other words, PIP awards are being potentially foreshortened by Atos/Capita (the “assessment provider”) preloading the claim with a 1 year review date, leaving scope for missed deadlines, and awards (even those recently confirmed by tribunals) ending prematurely, & thereby undermining the authority of tribunals by introducing a further (unnecessary) compliance hurdle for the most vulnerable claimants.

EPC
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Just got my first PIP renewal yesterday.
Claim was made in September 2013, awarded and paid in January 2014, award was for one year - there did exist a possibility that his condition could improve so guessing this is why the award was one year duration (I wasn’t involved with original claim).
Renewal September 2014, PIP2 form sent with covering letter one month before renewal date.
Ironic that I am assisting with a renewal and still have clients who claimed before this particular client who are still waiting on a decision!

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Received part of the internal guidance document for CMs via FOI request mentioned above, am waiting on the rest. Don’t think that it adds anything to what we already know but here it is

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